Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

1/60 and f4.5 was all it would give me in P mode with the flash. Camera on a bar stool, with IS off. Here are the results...

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

That looks pretty sharp. Again at f4.5, it is difficult to get a lot in focus. Still in P mode increase the ISO to 800 and still use the flash as before and then see.

Try the manual mode at the settings I suggested and ignore the camera warnings (it will flash and say it is underexposed, but try it anyway.)

It does appear that the camera and lens are working just fine. It just takes a while to learn how to use a DSLR. They are WAY different than a Point in Shoot but the rewards from learning to use it will be incredible!

Tim

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

1/60, F4.5, ISO 800 with the flash. Had to hand hold the camera this time(model moved ), so IS is back on. I think he's starting to get irritated with me

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

MUCH better Nick! That looks really good.

Now we have to get your van looking good in the photos and we will.

Tim

[ZoranC]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

1/60, F4.5, ISO 800 with the flash. Had to hand hold the camera this time(model moved ), so IS is back on.

Flash and high ISO are not usually used together. Also you don't need IS nor low F if you are using flash.

[Sal329]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

Sorry can't help on the camera question I still use a simple cannon point and shoot. But I just wanted to say I love your sign. It reminds me of like a 50's diner it is very very catchy

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

Flash and high ISO are not usually used together. Also you don't need IS nor low F if you are using flash.

You're right, it's not as it can cause exposures issues. But that was not what I was trying to see. The flash on the Rebel has a very low Guide Number unlike the 580 flash etc. I wanted to see the EXIF data and see how it would expose using a high ISO. Some Rebels tend to under expose in order to not blow out the highlights.

As for not using IS with a flash, I must disagree. Correct me if I am wrong Image Stabilization works with vertical movement (ie. hand holding). So while a flash will help freeze the action so-to-speak, IS is still needed when shooting at slower shutter speeds that are below the usual 1/focal length unless you are using strobes. That is why I suggested to Nick to shoot in manual at 1/125 at f5.6 and ignore the camera's meter as it would suggest underexposure when that is not the case as a flash is being used. Shooting wide open, IS is not needed as it is with the longer ranges, but if shooting a night scene or in dark areas where the shutter speed is low, IS hopefully gives you 2-3 stops of leeway to help. Again, please correct me if I am wrong??

Zoran, what camera are you shooting with?

Tim

[ZoranC]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

As for not using IS with a flash, I must disagree. Correct me if I am wrong Image Stabilization works with vertical movement (ie. hand holding). So while a flash will help freeze the action so-to-speak, IS is still needed when shooting at slower shutter speeds that are below the usual 1/focal length unless you are using strobes. That is why I suggested to Nick to shoot in manual at 1/125 at f5.6 and ignore the camera's meter as it would suggest underexposure when that is not the case as a flash is being used. Shooting wide open, IS is not needed as it is with the longer ranges, but if shooting a night scene or in dark areas where the shutter speed is low, IS hopefully gives you 2-3 stops of leeway to help. Again, please correct me if I am wrong??

It might be verly likely me that is wrong, I was just saying what is my understanding, that in P mode XSi will set shutter speed to either 1/60 or 1/200, and that therefore he shouldn't need IS with flash (as it is my undertsanding holding DSLR steady for 1/60 and IS off at focal lenght in questions here should not result in a problem).

But as I said, it might be verly likely me that is wrong as I am just starting to learn myself.

Zoran, what camera are you shooting with?

Mainly with Panasonic LX2 and I am slowly starting to use Fuji S6000fd and Sony DSC-R1 that I acquired recently. My subjects of interest are 99% outdoors (cars, landscapes, architecture) and when they are indoors it is usually places that consider flash or sound of DSLR mirror flap very bad thing to do (churches). Hence my focus on kings of wide angle high ISO (short of LX2, that one is just wide angle not high ISO) bridge cameras and corresponding gap in flash knowledge.

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

Sorry can't help on the camera question I still use a simple cannon point and shoot. But I just wanted to say I love your sign. It reminds me of like a 50's diner it is very very catchy

Thank you sir!
That was the goal in making this logo. I wanted something to resemble a 50' and 60'a drive in movie theater, or diner sign. Even though I wasn't around back then, I'm very partial to that era of auto history

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

MUCH better Nick! That looks really good.

Now we have to get your van looking good in the photos and we will.

Tim

Thank you so much for your help Tim!
I'm going to run down and buy a tripod today. I'm hoping that will help in keeping things in focus until I learn how to shoot this camera a little better. I do not have a steady hand, and tend to shake a bit, so the tripod will help.

Got a car to do this morning, but will head out afterwards to shop for a tripod.

Nick

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

It might be verly likely me that is wrong, I was just saying what is my understanding, that in P mode XSi will set shutter speed to either 1/60 or 1/200, and that therefore he shouldn't need IS with flash (as it is my undertsanding holding DSLR steady for 1/60 and IS off at focal lenght in questions here should not result in a problem).

But as I said, it might be verly likely me that is wrong as I am just starting to learn myself.


Mainly with Panasonic LX2 and I am slowly starting to use Fuji S6000fd and Sony DSC-R1 that I acquired recently. My subjects of interest are 99% outdoors (cars, landscapes, architecture) and when they are indoors it is usually places that consider flash or sound of DSLR mirror flap very bad thing to do (churches). Hence my focus on kings of wide angle high ISO (short of LX2, that one is just wide angle not high ISO) bridge cameras and corresponding gap in flash knowledge.

Cool! I would expect that one of your interests in photography would be cars! I have shot a couple of those myself!

P mode seems to make sure you get the picture but uses little creativity as it sets a shutter speed to avoid motion blur but at the expense of depth of field. The result, most people new to DSLR, and that included me, thought my camera was no better if not worse than my Canon PnS cameras. In the end, it was me.

A PnS uses a much smaller senor and therefore f stop numbers do not equate between them and DSLRs. Like I said above, a f2.8 on a PnS is more like f11 on a DSLR. So when one looks at the PnS and sees that everything is in focus at f2.8 with the PnS they are woefully disappointed when they try the same f2.8 with a DSLR. BUT if you change it to F11 on the DSLR, the picture will easily match the depth and vastly surpass the quality. I think your Sony DSC-R1 uses a sensor similar to an APS-C sized sensor so I am not sure how those numbers would compare.

I know what you mean about mirror slap though my 40D is pretty quiet. With my long lenses I use a tripod, mirror lock-up and a remote to avoid mirror slap which could cause slight blurriness with my longest lenses.

I agree it can be very confusing! If I were you and you want pictures in a church without using a flash, I would try and get a DSLR with a 50 mm f1.4 lens. You will obviously have a VERY limited depth of field at f 1.4, but you will have have 4 times the light compared to say a f4 lens which is still pretty fast! Combine that with a high ISO and you will be set. I know a lot of guys that regularly shoot indoors at 1600 ISO. I have used even ISO 3200 but it can become grainy if your exposure is even off by the smallest amount.

Zoran, you should post some of the photos you have taken. We are all learning and it may be helpful for all of us so we can obtain tricks and tips etc from each other.

Tim

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

Thank you so much for your help Tim!
I'm going to run down and buy a tripod today. I'm hoping that will help in keeping things in focus until I learn how to shoot this camera a little better. I do not have a steady hand, and tend to shake a bit, so the tripod will help.

Got a car to do this morning, but will head out afterwards to shop for a tripod.

Nick

You are welcome Nick! I hope I am helping in some way. I know when I started, I was reading about photography from every source I could. It was frustrating at first, but one gains more confidence each passing day. Just get out and shoot and enjoy the camera!

If possible, try and get the best tripod and ball head you can afford. The Manfrotto gear I have I really like, but it is not cheap. But I know it will last. Silk makes some pretty good tripods at decent prices.

Keep us posted!

Tim

[ZoranC]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

I would expect that one of your interests in photography would be cars! I have shot a couple of those myself!

P mode seems to make sure you get the picture but uses little creativity as it sets a shutter speed to avoid motion blur but at the expense of depth of field.

Personally I don't use P mode. My subjects don't move fast (or at all) so 99% of the time I am in A mode as I prefer controlling DOF.

The result, most people new to DSLR, and that included me, thought my camera was no better if not worse than my Canon PnS cameras. In the end, it was me.

I understand what you mean. It is a (re)learning process for me.

A PnS uses a much smaller senor and therefore f stop numbers do not equate between them and DSLRs. Like I said above, a f2.8 on a PnS is more like f11 on a DSLR. So when one looks at the PnS and sees that everything is in focus at f2.8 with the PnS they are woefully disappointed when they try the same f2.8 with a DSLR. BUT if you change it to F11 on the DSLR, the picture will easily match the depth and vastly surpass the quality.

Yes, however I have this nagging feeling there is something else at work when it comes to wheel section of Nick's shots. Regardless of which aperture he uses those wheels should be within focus so softness should not be due to focus. I have this nagging feeling either his Canon is not focusing correctly (which could be possible due to all those reflective surfaces) and DSC-H1 did not have problem focusing (actually, DSC-H1 is famous for extremely accurate focusing even in dark) or kit lens are soft or something else is at play.

I think your Sony DSC-R1 uses a sensor similar to an APS-C sized sensor so I am not sure how those numbers would compare.

You are correct, DSC-R1 is only bridge camera that uses APS-C sensor and lens in it are practically very high grade DSLR lens.

If I were you and you want pictures in a church without using a flash, I would try and get a DSLR with a 50 mm f1.4 lens.

I am still contemplating that and for those reasons I am very tempted with Canon 40D and Pentax K20D. I will very probably wait at least until PhotoKina is over if not after PMA in January as I am not in rush so I can afford to wait and have time work for me. It's not like I don't have anything else to do in the meantime. Like actually learn how to use these things. And to do that I don't need another one, DSC-R1 will do just fine.

Zoran, you should post some of the photos you have taken.

I will once I am ready to get embarassed, you guys have set the bar pretty high

[Kriez]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

I agree with Tim about the Manfrotto tripods as they are very nice. I have both a tripod and monopod from them and love them. The price can be compared as comparing the G110 vs. the old Wal Mart $30 orbital buffer. Will they both get the job done, sure, however the G110 will offer you a lot more possibilities, better quality, and more reliable.

The really nice thing with the ball head on the tripod is it allows for fast adjustments with ease.

Also if you start to get more into photography and pick up more lenses you may want the more sturdy tripod. I have the Canon 40D with a battery grip, and that with the 70-200 f/2.8 L lens can add up to quite a bit of weight really fast.

[Tim Lingor]

Re: Playing with the new camera....I have a LOT to learn!

I agree with Tim about the Manfrotto tripods as they are very nice. I have both a tripod and monopod from them and love them. The price can be compared as comparing the G110 vs. the old Wal Mart $30 orbital buffer. Will they both get the job done, sure, however the G110 will offer you a lot more possibilities, better quality, and more reliable.

The really nice thing with the ball head on the tripod is it allows for fast adjustments with ease.

Also if you start to get more into photography and pick up more lenses you may want the more sturdy tripod. I have the Canon 40D with a battery grip, and that with the 70-200 f/2.8 L lens can add up to quite a bit of weight really fast.

Agreed. I never realized how much a camera/lens combo weighed until I had my 100-400L. Now I am grateful I bought the Manfrotto tripod and ballhead. It would be horrible to have the camera/lens come crashing to the ground! That is why when I bought a Manfrotto Monopod I chose to put on it the same ball head as my tripod; overkill, yes, but I like the weight capacity of the ballhead. It just feels better to me.

Tim