Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

PC:

You missed my point, I was telling the original poster that I did not believe that his orbital/da tools would do the job, that in fact, he could get more friction by hand than these tools.

Certainly was not advocating trying to restore the Lambroghini's finish by hand or with an orbital/da.

You can only achieve the results seen on the Camaro with a rotary buffer and a wool cutting pad (s) and heavy compound, then a lighter grit compound and then swirl remover and wax/sealant.

Regards
Bud Abraham

[OctaneGuy]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

When I first read your post, I had to agree with Mike and Joe. But now that you've determined it to be single stage, it reminds me a bit of the '68 Camaro Restoration I did. The paint was botched by a detailer.

(Files were moved from Flickr for Joe)




Progress shot--showing buffed trunk, but still had the body panel around trunk lid to polish


Finished and all polished out. Single stage paint has lots of potential!






The PC was used for initial polishing, and it showed a lot of promise, but a rotary was needed to remove the top layer of paint to expose the beautiful finish under the damaged areas.

Took around 14 hours.

Read the full writeup here

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10293

Might also be interested in this 1965 Mustang

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11040

[the other pc]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

You will get more friction and pressure by hand than with a Cyclo or PC...

True, but only in a very small, localized area for a very brief length of time. The machines allow you to put far more energy into the finish and accomplish far more work than is humanly possible by hand.


PC.

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

You will get more friction and pressure by hand than with a Cyclo or PC.

Bud Abraham

[Scottwax]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Sorry to tell you, however, that without a rotary buffer you are not going to make much of a change. You have to cut off the "dead paint" and you cannot do that with a Cyclo or Porter Cable, you need the high speed and friction of a rotary buffer. If you do not get the dead paint off the car might look good for a day or so, but the oxidation/dead paint will come right thru the wax or sealant you put on. Trust me on this.

Unless the paint is unusually hard, a Cyclo or PC can remove dead, oxidized paint. You can even do it by hand in some cases. It isn't always 100% guaranteed a rotary only job. The only way to know for sure is a test panel or two.

I do agree this would be a very labor intensive job and a rotary would at least make the job go a lot more quickly.

I have found that on single stage paints, Meguiars #83 and #80 are very effective at removing oxidation. You will also need several pads as they will be clogging quickly with paint.

I also am not positive that Lambo has not been repainted at some point with a base coat/clear coat paint job because like Mike, it looks to me like clear coat failure in the pictures. Like Bud said, use a white towel and a polish to see if there is any color transfer.

[Jimmy Buffit]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

I care for two of these fine autos...

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/DSCF0185.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/DSCF0182.JPG

It is not lacquer... it is a single stage enamel.

I think it is beyond your skill set... Sorry, but if you haven't used a rotary, then you are not going to help this car.

By the way, have you counted the number of (vulnerable) edges on this car?

I'd wetsand, or, at least, wool most of the surface. I'd bill between $1500 and $2000.

This is a serious challenge, not to be taken lightly.

Of course, I'd need to see it.

Jim

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Toto:

Being a 1984 it is quite possible it is a single stage paint as it was not until 1993 that all USA manufacturers were using base-coat/clear-coats, almost exclusively.

However, I know Japan was experimenting with clears in the late 70's.

Try the white towel wax test and you will soon know.

Being single stage and that old explains the condition.

Sorry to tell you, however, that without a rotary buffer you are not going to make much of a change. You have to cut off the "dead paint" and you cannot do that with a Cyclo or Porter Cable, you need the high speed and friction of a rotary buffer. If you do not get the dead paint off the car might look good for a day or so, but the oxidation/dead paint will come right thru the wax or sealant you put on. Trust me on this.

If you cannot use a buffer then do not do the car because it will not come out the way the customer wants.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How do you know it is a single stage?

How do you know it is a laquer. Laquer has not been used for years. What year is the car?

What you can do is take a white towel; apply some wax and rub on the car. If you get red it is a single stage, if not a clear coat.

The process is simple:

a. Determine the paint type, single or two stage
b. Determine the problem which appears to be fading &
scratching.
c. Choose the tool, a rotary buffer
d. Choose the cutting pad, I would say a poly/wool blend
e. Choose a compound - I would start with a 2000 grit compound, no more aggressive. If that absolutely does not work, move to a 100% wool pad and if that does not work then go back to the poly/wool with 1200 grit compound.
f. Follow w/ a buffer; foam polishing pad and swirl remover/polish.
g. Follow that with wax or sealant hand or orbital applied.

That should give you as good a finish as you are going to get.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud: It is a 1984 and the owner said it did not have clear coat (I might be putting too much faith in the owner, but I'll check on the Lamborghine sights)

I plan to to the wax-on-applicator trick to determine that too.

Unfortunately, I don't have a rotary, so I'm going to try with the Cyclo + PC and pad/product choice. I could get some lambs wool pads for the Cyclo and try that approach.

Thanks

Toto

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How do you know it is a single stage?

How do you know it is a laquer. Laquer has not been used for years. What year is the car?

What you can do is take a white towel; apply some wax and rub on the car. If you get red it is a single stage, if not a clear coat.

The process is simple:

a. Determine the paint type, single or two stage
b. Determine the problem which appears to be fading &
scratching.
c. Choose the tool, a rotary buffer
d. Choose the cutting pad, I would say a poly/wool blend
e. Choose a compound - I would start with a 2000 grit compound, no more aggressive. If that absolutely does not work, move to a 100% wool pad and if that does not work then go back to the poly/wool with 1200 grit compound.
f. Follow w/ a buffer; foam polishing pad and swirl remover/polish.
g. Follow that with wax or sealant hand or orbital applied.

That should give you as good a finish as you are going to get.

Regards
Bud Abraham

[kellyinkc]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Hey Toto, wish I was off that day or I could come over and help!
Keep us posted.

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Quick Update: I looked at the car closely again this afternoon and worked out a quote/test.

The paint is single stage laquer (there is a medium chip on one of the fenders that clearly shows the depth of paint).

The more I examined the paint, the more I am concluding that the previous wax attempt was nowhere near professional. The fading spots in the picture appear to be wax or glaze that wasn't removed in time and applied in the sun.

I have an appointment with the car on Thursday, Sept 28th to do a test portion and if I am satisfied, to complete the paint restoration on Friday the 29th.

Mike: I'll probably keep you folks posted as I go Thursday evening with process products and pictures of results.

My plan is: wash + examine + possible clay. I might start with #83 + cyclo polishing pads or pc (depending upon surface area) or #80. That should determine what further steps I need to take. If successful, I'll probably apply #7 to revive the oils in the paint. Or, I might use a very successful Meguiars product that I tried: Color X.

Any suggestions on process are welcomed and appreciated. I don't have a rotary so that's out, but have a Cyclo and PC.

Totoland Mach

[35th Anniversary SS]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

When you say the "clear coat has been compromised" what do you mean??

Thanks

Bud Abraham

Im pretty sure what he means is there is clear coat failure. Meaning there is no clear coat in some areas... or a very significant lack of it in some areas. That means there is no choice but to respray the car to restore a "workable paint/surface".

[SVT Lightning]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How anyone that owms a Lambo can let the paint get into this condition is beyond me......makes me sick. This person does not TRULY appreciate what a fine auto they have! Just my 2 cents worth.........

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Mike:

Sorry for violating the rules. Usually sign all my posts that way.

Reviewing the photos again, all I see is extreme dulling of the clear coat, not any degredation or peeling. That, no doubt, was brought on by the hot sun's uv rays on the finish which might not have been garaged during the day nor had any wax on it.

Personally, have worked on finishes that appear to be the same, and with the right compound, cutting pad and buffer was able to bring it back to some degree.

We are both blowing smoke however, not being able to actually see the car's finish.

However, I would give it a try if the poster has the tools and skill to work on it.

When you say the "clear coat has been compromised" what do you mean??

Thanks

Bud Abraham

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

I think you can save the paint, it will not be new, but it will be improved. Without the rotary buffer I would not touch it. Customer will not be happy.

If the clear coat is missing or compromised to the point that it cannot be saved, then it will not matter which tool you use or which product you select, the paint is past the point of no return.

Rotary buffers are are excellent at removing defects out of paint that has enough film-build to safely work with, this is because of their direct drive action they offer a lot of power to remove paint. From the appearance of the paint in the pictures posted above, it does not look like there is enough film-build to remove a lot of paint.

Let's wait and see what Totoland Mach finds out when he reports back.

p.s.

buda: I removed the commercial link out of you post, please review our forum rules.