Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

[Totoland Mach]

I've got a chance to quote a paint correction to this wonderful car that someone has really hurt in a previous attempt. The car has original paint with some serious chips and scratches. But, the biggest problem is the condition of the paint (see pics). It appears to have suffered severe rotary burns and swirls.

Questions for the Pro Detailers out there

Can this paint be corrected? I have both a pc and a Cyclo with appropriate pads and products. I've also done a few jobs that had similar paint, but not on a car with this value.

I told the owner I'd prefer to "test" a portion of the car like the roof before I give a final price. My initial estimate is 12-14 hours to correct this mess.

I thing providing a test area would accomplish 2 goals: a) give me a chance to see if that paint can be restored. And b) give the owner confidence in my skills (he currently doesn't have a high opinion based on this last job).

Opinions and product/pad mix is needed. Thanks for the replies.

Totoland Mach

First pic is the 10 foot shot:



Now the air scoop shot which is representative of the entire car:



Front of hood just before windshield area:



Finally, the roof:



Thanks again for any thoughts and ideas. I'm estimating 10-12 hours to fix this paint + a light interior clean.

Totoland Mach

[DKDetail]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

it all depends on how much you want to make an hour. no.1 you will deff need to rotary buff this finish. i would charge arround $345 for this finish + interior cleaning

Good Luck

[Superior Shine]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

A test spot will tell you for sure but I don't think it can be corrected. It appears it has been neglected and sun burnt. I believe a repaint is in order.

At most you maybe able to improve it a bit but I don't think it will be acceptable.

Keep in mind this is my opinoion from the picture I see in this thread. Do test a spot and let us know how it turns out.

Also the time you estimate to polish it out is about right. I would charge $800-$1000 tp do it.

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

A test spot will tell you for sure but I don't think it can be corrected. It appears it has been neglected and sun burnt. I believe a repaint is in order.

At most you maybe able to improve it a bit but I don't think it will be acceptable.

Keep in mind this is my opinoion from the picture I see in this thread. Do test a spot and let us know how it turns out.

Also the time you estimate to polish it out is about right. I would charge $800-$1000 tp do it.

Thanks Sir: I appreciate the "pro" advice. Like you, I wonder whether this paint is too far gone. I offered the owner a test panel (i.e. the roof which is fairly small) and told him that would be a guage for cost on doing the rest of the car.

Totoland Mach

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

The pictures show a clear coat that has been compromised to the point of no return. Turn the job down, tell the owner to never higher the detailer that did the previous work and tell them that the only honest repair will to be like Joe said, and that is to have the car repainted.

Doing a "Test Spot" to about a one foot square area using M80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 foam pad on the dual action polisher should improve/remove the swirls in the clear coat that isn't hazy or dull looking, but it is highly unlikely that it will do anything at all to fix those dull haze spots and unless you know the owner won't get ugly after you do a test spot and try to then say you caused the problem, it's really not worth doing because no amount of polishing is going to save this paint job.

Those dull hazy spots are either sections where the clear coat is now missing, or the clear paint itself is so deteriorated that no product from any polish company is going to save it.

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

The pictures show a clear coat that has been compromised to the point of no return. Turn the job down, tell the owner to never higher the detailer that did the previous work and tell them that the only honest repair will to be like Joe said, and that is to have the car repainted.

Doing a "Test Spot" to about a one foot square area using M80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 foam pad on the dual action polisher should improve/remove the swirls in the clear coat that isn't hazy or dull looking, but it is highly unlikely that it will do anything at all to fix those dull haze spots and unless you know the owner won't get ugly after you do a test spot and try to then say you caused the problem, it's really not worth doing because no amount of polishing is going to save this paint job.

Those dull hazy spots are either sections where the clear coat is now missing, or the clear paint itself is so deteriorated that no product from any polish company is going to save it.

Thanks Mike for the informative opinion. I told the owner a test portion is in order and will probably back that up with some written documentation that I should not be held liable for any further deterioration of the paint. If he agrees in writing, I feel I have some legal protection before tackling this project.

Totoland Mach

[35th Anniversary SS]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Those pictures break my heart.

Such an unfortunate thing.

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Personally, I would not give up on the paint finish. But you do need a rotary buffer to make any type of effective improvement in the paint.

The friction and heat of a rotary buffer with a cutting pad and compound is the only thing that will bring this paint back. Orbitals such as Porter Cable and Cyclo, while good tools, for applying and removing wax, etc, will not give you the results you want on a car in this condition.

Buy yourself a Rotary Buffer; poly/wool blend and foam cutting pads; foam polishing pads and the appropriate compounds of which there are 600 grit; 800 grit (heavy) 1200 grit; 1500 grit (medium) 2000 grit (light) and Micro Fine (micro fine) also a swirl remover/polish.

I think you can save the paint, it will not be new, but it will be improved. Without the rotary buffer I would not touch it. Customer will not be happy.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

I think you can save the paint, it will not be new, but it will be improved. Without the rotary buffer I would not touch it. Customer will not be happy.

If the clear coat is missing or compromised to the point that it cannot be saved, then it will not matter which tool you use or which product you select, the paint is past the point of no return.

Rotary buffers are are excellent at removing defects out of paint that has enough film-build to safely work with, this is because of their direct drive action they offer a lot of power to remove paint. From the appearance of the paint in the pictures posted above, it does not look like there is enough film-build to remove a lot of paint.

Let's wait and see what Totoland Mach finds out when he reports back.

p.s.

buda: I removed the commercial link out of you post, please review our forum rules.

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Mike:

Sorry for violating the rules. Usually sign all my posts that way.

Reviewing the photos again, all I see is extreme dulling of the clear coat, not any degredation or peeling. That, no doubt, was brought on by the hot sun's uv rays on the finish which might not have been garaged during the day nor had any wax on it.

Personally, have worked on finishes that appear to be the same, and with the right compound, cutting pad and buffer was able to bring it back to some degree.

We are both blowing smoke however, not being able to actually see the car's finish.

However, I would give it a try if the poster has the tools and skill to work on it.

When you say the "clear coat has been compromised" what do you mean??

Thanks

Bud Abraham

[SVT Lightning]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How anyone that owms a Lambo can let the paint get into this condition is beyond me......makes me sick. This person does not TRULY appreciate what a fine auto they have! Just my 2 cents worth.........

[35th Anniversary SS]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

When you say the "clear coat has been compromised" what do you mean??

Thanks

Bud Abraham

Im pretty sure what he means is there is clear coat failure. Meaning there is no clear coat in some areas... or a very significant lack of it in some areas. That means there is no choice but to respray the car to restore a "workable paint/surface".

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Quick Update: I looked at the car closely again this afternoon and worked out a quote/test.

The paint is single stage laquer (there is a medium chip on one of the fenders that clearly shows the depth of paint).

The more I examined the paint, the more I am concluding that the previous wax attempt was nowhere near professional. The fading spots in the picture appear to be wax or glaze that wasn't removed in time and applied in the sun.

I have an appointment with the car on Thursday, Sept 28th to do a test portion and if I am satisfied, to complete the paint restoration on Friday the 29th.

Mike: I'll probably keep you folks posted as I go Thursday evening with process products and pictures of results.

My plan is: wash + examine + possible clay. I might start with #83 + cyclo polishing pads or pc (depending upon surface area) or #80. That should determine what further steps I need to take. If successful, I'll probably apply #7 to revive the oils in the paint. Or, I might use a very successful Meguiars product that I tried: Color X.

Any suggestions on process are welcomed and appreciated. I don't have a rotary so that's out, but have a Cyclo and PC.

Totoland Mach

[kellyinkc]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Hey Toto, wish I was off that day or I could come over and help!
Keep us posted.

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How do you know it is a single stage?

How do you know it is a laquer. Laquer has not been used for years. What year is the car?

What you can do is take a white towel; apply some wax and rub on the car. If you get red it is a single stage, if not a clear coat.

The process is simple:

a. Determine the paint type, single or two stage
b. Determine the problem which appears to be fading &
scratching.
c. Choose the tool, a rotary buffer
d. Choose the cutting pad, I would say a poly/wool blend
e. Choose a compound - I would start with a 2000 grit compound, no more aggressive. If that absolutely does not work, move to a 100% wool pad and if that does not work then go back to the poly/wool with 1200 grit compound.
f. Follow w/ a buffer; foam polishing pad and swirl remover/polish.
g. Follow that with wax or sealant hand or orbital applied.

That should give you as good a finish as you are going to get.

Regards
Bud Abraham