Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

How do you know it is a single stage?

How do you know it is a laquer. Laquer has not been used for years. What year is the car?

What you can do is take a white towel; apply some wax and rub on the car. If you get red it is a single stage, if not a clear coat.

The process is simple:

a. Determine the paint type, single or two stage
b. Determine the problem which appears to be fading &
scratching.
c. Choose the tool, a rotary buffer
d. Choose the cutting pad, I would say a poly/wool blend
e. Choose a compound - I would start with a 2000 grit compound, no more aggressive. If that absolutely does not work, move to a 100% wool pad and if that does not work then go back to the poly/wool with 1200 grit compound.
f. Follow w/ a buffer; foam polishing pad and swirl remover/polish.
g. Follow that with wax or sealant hand or orbital applied.

That should give you as good a finish as you are going to get.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud: It is a 1984 and the owner said it did not have clear coat (I might be putting too much faith in the owner, but I'll check on the Lamborghine sights)

I plan to to the wax-on-applicator trick to determine that too.

Unfortunately, I don't have a rotary, so I'm going to try with the Cyclo + PC and pad/product choice. I could get some lambs wool pads for the Cyclo and try that approach.

Thanks

Toto

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Toto:

Being a 1984 it is quite possible it is a single stage paint as it was not until 1993 that all USA manufacturers were using base-coat/clear-coats, almost exclusively.

However, I know Japan was experimenting with clears in the late 70's.

Try the white towel wax test and you will soon know.

Being single stage and that old explains the condition.

Sorry to tell you, however, that without a rotary buffer you are not going to make much of a change. You have to cut off the "dead paint" and you cannot do that with a Cyclo or Porter Cable, you need the high speed and friction of a rotary buffer. If you do not get the dead paint off the car might look good for a day or so, but the oxidation/dead paint will come right thru the wax or sealant you put on. Trust me on this.

If you cannot use a buffer then do not do the car because it will not come out the way the customer wants.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

[Jimmy Buffit]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

I care for two of these fine autos...

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/DSCF0185.JPG

http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/DSCF0182.JPG

It is not lacquer... it is a single stage enamel.

I think it is beyond your skill set... Sorry, but if you haven't used a rotary, then you are not going to help this car.

By the way, have you counted the number of (vulnerable) edges on this car?

I'd wetsand, or, at least, wool most of the surface. I'd bill between $1500 and $2000.

This is a serious challenge, not to be taken lightly.

Of course, I'd need to see it.

Jim

[Scottwax]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Sorry to tell you, however, that without a rotary buffer you are not going to make much of a change. You have to cut off the "dead paint" and you cannot do that with a Cyclo or Porter Cable, you need the high speed and friction of a rotary buffer. If you do not get the dead paint off the car might look good for a day or so, but the oxidation/dead paint will come right thru the wax or sealant you put on. Trust me on this.

Unless the paint is unusually hard, a Cyclo or PC can remove dead, oxidized paint. You can even do it by hand in some cases. It isn't always 100% guaranteed a rotary only job. The only way to know for sure is a test panel or two.

I do agree this would be a very labor intensive job and a rotary would at least make the job go a lot more quickly.

I have found that on single stage paints, Meguiars #83 and #80 are very effective at removing oxidation. You will also need several pads as they will be clogging quickly with paint.

I also am not positive that Lambo has not been repainted at some point with a base coat/clear coat paint job because like Mike, it looks to me like clear coat failure in the pictures. Like Bud said, use a white towel and a polish to see if there is any color transfer.

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

You will get more friction and pressure by hand than with a Cyclo or PC.

Bud Abraham

[the other pc]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

You will get more friction and pressure by hand than with a Cyclo or PC...

True, but only in a very small, localized area for a very brief length of time. The machines allow you to put far more energy into the finish and accomplish far more work than is humanly possible by hand.


PC.

[OctaneGuy]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

When I first read your post, I had to agree with Mike and Joe. But now that you've determined it to be single stage, it reminds me a bit of the '68 Camaro Restoration I did. The paint was botched by a detailer.

(Files were moved from Flickr for Joe)




Progress shot--showing buffed trunk, but still had the body panel around trunk lid to polish


Finished and all polished out. Single stage paint has lots of potential!






The PC was used for initial polishing, and it showed a lot of promise, but a rotary was needed to remove the top layer of paint to expose the beautiful finish under the damaged areas.

Took around 14 hours.

Read the full writeup here

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10293

Might also be interested in this 1965 Mustang

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11040

[buda]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

PC:

You missed my point, I was telling the original poster that I did not believe that his orbital/da tools would do the job, that in fact, he could get more friction by hand than these tools.

Certainly was not advocating trying to restore the Lambroghini's finish by hand or with an orbital/da.

You can only achieve the results seen on the Camaro with a rotary buffer and a wool cutting pad (s) and heavy compound, then a lighter grit compound and then swirl remover and wax/sealant.

Regards
Bud Abraham

[OctaneGuy]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Actually, I began my tests on the Camaro with a PC and M83 and the results were promising, but not fast enough to get the job done within an acceptable time period.

I used the rotary with foam pads, primarily W-7006 cutting pad and W-8006 polishing pad using M83. It was finished off with the PC and M80 and #21 with a W9006 pad and PC.

Richard

You can only achieve the results seen on the Camaro with a rotary buffer and a wool cutting pad (s) and heavy compound, then a lighter grit compound and then swirl remover and wax/sealant.

Regards
Bud Abraham

[Totoland Mach]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Thanks for the replies folks! That Camaro is way beyond what the Lambo finish is and that's a tribute to your work.

I can borrow a rotary from a friend here in KC and I have 7006, 8006, and 9006 pads.

A little sad humor about the owner. The last person that detailed this car only charged $100 and I promptly told him he probably got his money's worth.

Like I indicated: Wash + Test for single stage + test for finish on a small panel (like that air scoop) = decision time whether to go ahead.

Folks, I appreciate the comments and assistance. If I decide to go ahead and the car paint comes out to my expectations, I'll probably lock in several high end cars in the future.

Totoland Mach

[Scottwax]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

You will get more friction and pressure by hand than with a Cyclo or PC.

Bud Abraham

When it comes to removing oxidation, I would agree. Plus if you use terry cloth towels, you have a thick nap to help keep from rubbing that oxidation back into the paint. You do have to keep refolding the towels though.

Honestly, I think going over a heavily oxidized car by hand using terry cloth towels for the first step makes sense. It will remove the really nasty top layer without messing up your pads.

[hammer55]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

wow that Camaro came out excellent, what a difference a person who knows what they are doing can make

[the other pc]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

..If I decide to go ahead and the car paint comes out to my expectations, I'll probably lock in several high end cars in the future…

Way to go. Keep us informed!

…I think going over a heavily oxidized car by hand using terry cloth towels for the first step makes sense. It will remove the really nasty top layer without messing up your pads.

Wouldn’t having a “beater” pad for those special occasions be more efficient?

PC:

You missed my point, I was telling the original poster that I did not believe that his orbital/da tools would do the job, that in fact, he could get more friction by hand than these tools….

That’s what I thought you meant. I disagree.

This could be an interesting (and lengthy) discussion in it’s own right. If you’d like to discuss it in detail We could start a new thread devoted to it.


PC.

[Superior Shine]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

I can see, I can see!! Thanks

I agree single stage is a bit of a different animal -





He will have to do a test spot first to be 100% sure it is toast.

My vote (judging solely on the pics provided) that the finish can not be saved on that Lamborghini.

[Scottwax]

Re: Pro Advice needed before I quote Lamborghini

Wouldn’t having a “beater” pad for those special occasions be more efficient?

Not really, I can go over a car by hand if it is heavily oxidized for the first step as quickly as by machine. No need to stop and clean out the pad, just refold the towel and move on. That would only be for very heavy oxidized paint, just to break the surface up. If the paint isn't heavily oxidized, I'd just start with the Cyclo.