How bout them Toyotas!

[kimchiyuk]

So, with all of the gas pedal problems and now the brake problems with the Prius, do you think this may send Toyota in a downward spiral? Every time I hear something on the radio or read something on the internet, it seems like the solution to the problem is different. Almost like they are trying to hide the real problem! I for one am all for Ford going back to number one!!!!!!!

[Markus Kleis]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Being an automotive journalist who writes "breaking news" for the auto industry on a daily basis, I can't believe the situation myself.

It's to the point that we feel bad reporting the news... a day doesn't go by without another handful of new, negative developments.

At any rate, feel free to discuss the situation, but everyone please remember not to bash others - keep it friendly.

Thanks!

[eyezack87]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

To be honest, the media is blowing this way out of proportion. Toyota is up top so the media has probably been looking for a long time to blow them out of the water. Sure, the threat is real, but it isn't as big as it seems. In fact, other manufacturers are doing recalls of their own but the media isn't focused on them as much.

I've stopped listening to ANY media that reported Swine Flu as a killer epidemic. Once another big story comes out, the media will move on. Its that simple.

And yes, I have a 2010 Camry, driven many ES350 loaners, etc etc for a very long time. I'm not dead yet

[Murr1525]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Yeah, my Dads Avalon still seems good.

Assuming nothing else major happens, no trend, etc, Toyota should be fine.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

I agree, Toyota is handling things. It happens in every walk of life. Man-made products are not perfect.

[paudashlake]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Well, in my opinion, there is this little thing known as a mistake, and it happens to everyone. Just wait...next it might be the United Airlines with sticky gas petals, or even the skittles company having salmonella in their skittles. As long as the mistake can be resolved, I don't think people should beat them up so much.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

As I mentioned before, I cover automotive news for a living, so I know what does and doesn't get reported etc.

I can also say that the reason this is getting such a media blitz can *mostly* be traced to just a few things...for one, as eyezack pointed out, Toyota has long been considered to be the quality and safety leader in the industry. When you are on top, and go out of your way to make it be known...and sell your product based on that reputation, then expect more scrutiny when problems are found... it makes sense.

Two, and I think this is the biggest factor, there have been oodles and oodles of reports coming out that are finding there was more to this than simply finding a flaw... there appears to have been many cover ups, possible illegal activity, and hiding of flaws. As the spotlight was shown on Toyota it just happened to make these things more visible as the media began to dig deeper. Just today ABC unveiled that a former NHTSA employee, turned Toyota employee appears to have made a deal with NHTSA to not investigate any of the severe cases - if this turns out to be true, it will be devastating to the entire auto industry.

I don't think the coverage is unfair, nor do I find it biased. Ask any auto journalist who has been in the industry longer than I and they will tell you that Toyota and Honda have enjoyed almost impenetrable immunity to news coverage when problems were found for years. American automakers, by contrast, get lambasted by the media over the smallest of issues...and have for quite some time. (Which explains the difference between perception and reality with quality on newer automobiles from American and foreign makes).


When Ford has the Firestone recall it was EVERYWHERE just like this is. That was a single recall... this is three recalls and counting, and growing.

Does it mean that Toyota is "done," or that they don't make quality products? Of course not. No one is perfect... even the best automakers still average OVER 1 problem per vehicle reported in the first three months of ownership.

But I will say that I can't agree with the mindset that "I have a Toyota and I haven't died" is terribly sound, or safe. It is well-known that the issues are rare, the vast majority of owners will never experience it.... but that doesn't mean they aren't at an elevated risk of it happening. People that never had it happen before are dead now... it only takes once.

I highly advise everyone to take the recalls very seriously and get the fixes done ASAP - however low the odds.

[roushstage2]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Well said Mark! +1

[Deaner5]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Certianly an interesting topic. I am VERY particular with my feet, pedals and mats in my car. If the mat moves an inch, it is bothersome to me. I find it interesting that a few of the Toyota pedals are curved not flat like most.

I was discussing this with a co-worker that has a 2010 Camry and he stated that when he pushes the gas it's almost like flexing your ankle at an unconfortable angle (think starting your foot at a 45 to 60 degree angle and then pressing the gas/continuing to go at a worse angle).

On top of the rounded/curved pedal, the mats seems to have ridges that might catch. I have seen the clip of someone putting a mat in and catching the gas a ton on the news.

I am currently looking at 2004-2008 Acura TLs and I noticed that the gas pedal is attached to the floor. I have yet to drive one, but even something that minor, I could see being a dealerbreaker for me. We'll see what happens.

[Still Learnin]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Toyota for the win!!! Glad my truck wasnt on it. atleast yet haha. im

[imacarnut]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

To be honest, the media is blowing this way out of proportion.

Agreed. I don't always believe everything the news/media has to say (about anything in general these days), there is always two sides to the story and we all know how they can be sometimes.

I agree, Toyota is handling things. It happens in every walk of life. Man-made products are not perfect.

Agreed. No one auto manufacturer (or anything else) is going to be perfect and not come across a problem or two at one point or another.

[hacker-pschorr]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

To be honest, the media is blowing this way out of proportion.

I agree, Toyota is handling things. It happens in every walk of life. Man-made products are not perfect.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Reports of people experiencing the problem FIVE YEARS AGO went ignored by Toyota.

My friends uncle was turned away twice by the dealer telling him the reported problem was "driver error". It was not until the 3rd trip when he was able to recreate the situation did they bother to even look at the car. Even then he was brushed off. This is not an isolated incident.

Floor mats? Give me a break. I expect this kind of *Edit for language* response from Chrysler or GM.

Fact is Toyota dropped the ball big time on this one. This recall cannot be compared to any of the "big-3" since failure is expected from them.
Toyota is at the top because of a perception of quality and service. They have successfully screwed the royal pooch on both counts at the same time, that takes skill.....

Toyota is far from "out of the woods" with this problem:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0

February 1, 2010 5:55 PM PST
Wozniak cites 'scary' Prius acceleration problem

More problems may be lurking for Toyota. Speaking at an event in San Francisco on Monday, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak waxed eloquent about a "very scary" problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius.

Wozniak was speaking at Discovery Forum 2010 when he went off topic for a few minutes and spoke about problems with his 2010 Toyota Prius.

"I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right," was his segue into the Toyota comments. Then he said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) for three months but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem--as described below.

"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild, but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."

"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me, I can hit the brakes," he said.

Toyota said it investigates all complaints. "We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies," said John Hanson, national manager environmental safety and quality communications at Toyota. "After many years of exhaustive testing, we have not found any evidence of an electronic [software] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration."

Toyota also recently announced a recall in Russia, it was thought only US delivered cars were affected and now the S&P is talking about downgrading their stock.

It's not just media hype. Lives are at stake with this one yet Toyota loyalists are backing them up like they have some claim in the matter. If I were a fan of Toyota I would be furious about this, not making excuses.

[eyezack87]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

But I will say that I can't agree with the mindset that "I have a Toyota and I haven't died" is terribly sound, or safe. It is well-known that the issues are rare, the vast majority of owners will never experience it.... but that doesn't mean they aren't at an elevated risk of it happening. People that never had it happen before are dead now... it only takes once.

I highly advise everyone to take the recalls very seriously and get the fixes done ASAP - however low the odds.

With media attention as it is, it makes it seem like everyone with a Camry/ES350 will die a fiery death. While those few that did unfortunately perish due to this issue, the media has no right to swing most of the uneducated public in a single direction. Afterall, not everyone outside is as educated as most forum members here and in Toyota/Lexus forums.


---------------------------------------------------
For a small update, there was a press release on Toyota's website stating that dealerships are now ready to handle the recall. Some dealerships, including Longo Toyota, are staying open 24/7 to address every single model potentially affected by this recall notice. Hopefully this will be the last time this will happen, but to be on the hopeful side, almost everyone in the general public who watches the news will now have the information to shift to neutral no matter what vehicle they have if it accelerates out of control.

[eyezack87]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Nothing could be further from the truth. Reports of people experiencing the problem FIVE YEARS AGO went ignored by Toyota.

My friends uncle was turned away twice by the dealer telling him the reported problem was "driver error". It was not until the 3rd trip when he was able to recreate the situation did they bother to even look at the car. Even then he was brushed off. This is not an isolated incident.

Floor mats? Give me a break. I expect this kind of *edit* response from Chrysler or GM.

Fact is Toyota dropped the ball big time on this one. This recall cannot be compared to any of the "big-3" since failure is expected from them.
Toyota is at the top because of a perception of quality and service. They have successfully screwed the royal pooch on both counts at the same time, that takes skill.....

Toyota is far from "out of the woods" with this problem:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0

Toyota also recently announced a recall in Russia, it was thought only US delivered cars were affected and now the S&P is talking about downgrading their stock.

It's not just media hype. Lives are at stake with this one yet Toyota loyalists are backing them up like they have some claim in the matter. If I were a fan of Toyota I would be furious about this, not making excuses.

The floormats were ruled as a potential cause if you haven't been following. Quite a few Car magazines did their own tests and found some issues with them.

Unfortunately, the situation with your friend's uncle is almost universal at any dealership. Lexus does it, Toyota does it, Honda, Dodge, Chrysler, etc. It isnt focused on one brand because if you don't prove it, they wont believe you. Please remember that most dealerships operate according to their own terms, not the parent company

Also, one more thing I would like to add. Quality from Toyota has gone down in the recent years due to extreme cockiness. Look at an early 90's model Toyota or Lexus and you will see materials that are tenfold better than what it is now. Them being at number 1 switched their view from Quality>Quantity to Quantity>Quality. Essentially turning them into most American brands. Power corrupts, simple as that.

As for being a Toyota/Lexus fan, they take care of their customers when things go bad. Time after time I see them doing it efficiently. And no, I'm not talking about their dealerships. That is why Toyota will bounce back to the top after this. The new President will have no issues with swaying the board now (he called something this big happening when he picked up the job but no one listened).

[Windycity]

Re: How bout them Toyotas!

Say what you want about toyota here is my experience with them

My 1997corolla 231,900 miles its first tune up was 6 months ago...never been in the shop.

Mother in law 1995 camery 260,000 miles never had major problems, still uses it as a
second car.

Fatherinlaw has 2....1987 4x4 pickup with 398,000 miles, we took it last week to get 1/2 yard of gravel for the barn.
His 1996 4 runner has over 400,000 miles on it and he still pulls a small bass boat with it

All of these vehicles have never been in the shop for major maintenance except tune up, brakes, exhaust.....etc.

Most of these miles are highway but common look at the miles! My corolla engine never misses a beat and runs like new...

I am a chevy man at heart but my experence with toyotas doesn't lie