What if GM bankrupts ?

[I Shine]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

When knocked down and in despair that is when Americans rise to the occasion.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

They built airplanes, and other military vehicles.

They built tanks, jeeps, planes and other things for the military.

Just some food for thought... we need the big 3, but we need them to be lean, mean, fighting machines... able to compete in a world market with world class products.

That way everyone wins and we have the heavy manufacturing resources available in case we ever need them again.

Plus it doesn't hurt that we make the products that make their products shine!

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I could see GM selling off certain lines and divesting themselves of unprofitable overseas ventures, but I don't see General Motors shuttering down the store and relegating the brand name to the dust bin. GM is extremely diversified and is still actively involved in military contracts. They retired Oldsmobile a few years back, I expect they might do the same to one or two other divisions as well, maybe Buick. But they will survive, I have no doubt of that.

And the paint on GM vehicles won't suddenly swirl and go into clear coat failure. Part of the bankruptcy contingency would undoubtedly earmark funds for honoring warranties on vehicles sold prior to their Chapter 11 filing.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

That way everyone wins and we have the heavy manufacturing resources available in case we ever need them again.

Figured you were leading to that - without heavy industry on home soil we're in a world of hurt if the world goes topsy-turvy like it did during WWII. You don't just start that infrastructure from scratch on the spur of the moment.

Even during the US Civil War the North had the bulk of the heavy industry, which put the South at a decided disadvantage.

[Bunky]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

If GM does down, people will be detailing more foreign brands.

[3Fitty]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Difficult question for me.

On the one hand, my wife is from Detroit and so is my mother so more than half of my family works for the big three and many including two uncles, work for GM. Others work for Ford, Chrysler and the rest work for Tier 1 suppliers to the big three. Obviously my family is deeply involved.

On the other hand, I remember way back in the day having heated discussions with family members about the state of the big three (I'm talking early 90's). I remember telling them "if the big 3 don't start making better cars, they are going to be in big trouble in the future". I think they certainly started doing so, but to a large degree, they had already lost their audience and are now facing the consquences.

GM in particular has seen it's market share dwindle over the last 20 years (in particular) because they lost loyal GM customers (like my family) and many are just not willing to go back UNLESS our current companies fail in those areas important to us.

My family is probably no different than many but our story goes something like this...

We were a 100% GM family. Nothing but GM. In the late 80's we had 3 cars which turned out to be one disaster after the next ('87 Chevy Cavalier, '88 Buick Park Avenue, '90 Pontiac Grand Prix). The Grand Prix in particular was a total debacle. We only owned it for 9 months and was in the shop at least three times a month. The Cavalier and Park Avenue also had a lot of reliability issues (which is probably the single biggest factor for my family in the cars we buy).

By 1992, we commited familial blasphemy and bought two Hondas (Prelude and Civic). My father bought a Lexus in 1993. Since that time we've only bought either Toyota or Honda and we do so because (to an extent) we have brand loyalty. The cars have all be very good and we've never had reason to "switch back". Almost like... "if it's not broke, don't fix it". Granted if I started to see problems in my Lex or Honda, I'd dump either company in a heartbeat. However, thus far we've had pretty good luck.

I'm sure there are thousands of people like my family which is a part of the puzzle to why GM is floundering.

I do also believe the Japanese companies have certain economic advantages in terms of what they pay in salaries, although I think GM management milks the "healthcare/pension" issue to death. The reality is in Canada GM does NOT pay healthcare costs (they way they do in the US), yet they are still floundering. I think the company has been mismanaged by the Execs at the top, to the detriment of the assembly plant worker.

[new2detailing]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

@3Fitty:

I read you post and it mirrors my family. My parents and extended family bought only US made vehicles. After disastrous reliability of various GM, Ford, and Chrysler vehicles for the late 70's to the early 90's , the jig was up. My parents look elsewhere for vehicles now and would take a miracle to look at US cars now (again the perceived reliability gap that many customers have and something that US car companies are working hard to address). That is one generation scorned. The problem is that the consumer does not rely on blind faith/loyalty anymore. Rather, they have become highly informed of their buying decision. ( CR, Edmunds, various car mags, and vehicle specific forums). It is not the case of the union worker on the line, although they seem to take the brunt of the blame in the media. Many times they see a potential corrective action only to be overruled by the cost analysis of fixing the problem under warranty rather than at the line. The concessions currently made by the UAW will make the cost comparible to Toyota's US factories within 5 years, but the economy tanked and all car companies are left in the lurch. The reasons that GM is in this bind are too numerous to mention on a forum (rather it could be a Business School study by itself). I do hope that GM survives, but it will need to slim down to be competitive.

[3Fitty]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

^^^ Great post! I totally agree.

I hope GM (Ford and Chrysler) all survive and I would LOVE to buy from them again, I just need to muster up the "courage" (so to speak) to buy from them again. Maybe it is just me, but there are few things in this world I hate more than being forced to take my car for service. As you said, I just can't shake the past feelings along with all the experts opinions re: the Japanese vehicles and their (perceived) reliability.

[ShinyMopar]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I have owned GM products, Chrysler, but never Ford but it wouldn't be out of the question for me. I don't want to see our companies, any of them, go under. I never have liked foreign cars but for a while they did have all of the US cars beat in quality, price, almost any comparison you can think of. However now the tables have turned. I have noticed the foreign companies becoming more Americanized, such as building bigger, more powerful vehicles instead of just the little four cylinders they use to. While I see their quality still the same. However I also see all of the US companies building even better cars. GM has got some great looking cars out now, great fuel economy, and great quality. For a while I would have sworn Chrysler was going to go first to go but they have really stepped it up. They are the best car I have ever owned and their power is unmatched by anybody out there on a comparable engine. Even their lifetime powertrain warranty is a big reason to buy from them. Ford is really stepping out of the box and coming out with sweet looking rides from the new F-150 all the way to the Focus. I am really happy they have learned and are making a big step in the right direction. Keep fighting boys! (and girls!)

[jfelbab]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I have to wonder why our congress has not proffered a large tax incentive for people to buy a new fuel efficient car. I would think a sliding scale of maybe $10K for buying a car that gets over 35 mpg and maybe $15k for one that gets over 40 mpg would motivate buyers to consider purchasing.

This would help us reduce our foreign oil consumption and get older, higher polluting vehicles off the road.

This might aid the auto industry to sell cars again and avoid the demise of the Big Three.

Of course, this assumes that we are ready to drive the fuel efficient designs. I'm not sure we are.

[3Fitty]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

One of the things that has annoyed me in this entire process (and there are many) are the few congressmen/women & Senators who are against helping the big three, while offering huge tax incentives for the foreign car companies in their States (this from a guy who only has foreign cars right now).

At a time when the US is having a rough go of it these politicians should be thinking "country first" and not simply in the interest of getting re-elected in 2 or 4 years.

At the end of the day, my thoughts are for the 10's of thousands of workers from the big three and the families they have to support.

[mcox]

Re: What if GM......

After reading a lot of the posts I felt it necessary to add my two cents. For those of old enough to remember, Chrysler/Dodge was in a similar position a while back and seems to have survived(?) somewhat nicely.As some others have mentioned, the big 3 have had their quality/reliability issues for sometime and to their respective credit's have made HUGE gains in their quality and the reliability of the newer vehicles they are now bringing to market. They also have demonstrated an ambivalent attitude toward both the state of their business and the consumer while assuming the Japanese manufacturers would never be able to sell their vehicles in the U.S. for a variety of reasons most of us baby boomers should remember. The Japanese manufacturers were able to “build quality into the part/ process rather than inspect it in” as US manufacturers tended to do. Where the Big 3 failed, IMHO, is to not take the Toyotas, Datsun/Nissans, and whoever else has come into the game as seriously as they should have. Credit the Japanese companies and the consumer with the marketing, whether official or word of mouth, of the quality of the vehicles coming across the ocean and that perceived reliability that everyone wishes for. Shame that the Big 3 took so long to “come to their senses.

To clarify, I learned to drive on a F150 Ford and was a loyal purchaser of Fords for 33 years. Ford forgot I had been a loyal customer for that long and basically told me to fly a kite when I had a problem with the last Ford vehicle I bought hence the Titan in my avatar.

[ShinyMopar]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Of course, this assumes that we are ready to drive the fuel efficient designs. I'm not sure we are.

You know you are exactly right... I drive nothing that gets over 25MPG and I hate to admit my next truck is going to have a bigger engine than what I have now. I guess at least it does get better mileage.

[3Fitty]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

You know you are exactly right... I drive nothing that gets over 25MPG and I hate to admit my next truck is going to have a bigger engine than what I have now. I guess at least it does get better mileage.

I think you are probably with the majority, although I am a bit different. I am actually annoyed with my IS because the mileage is pretty terrible as far as I'm concerned. I get about 24-25 mpg (hwy) and I wish it were better. Car has a V6 and makes 306hp and I suppose that's the rub on mileage.

I recently drove wifey's CR-V on an extended trip and was getting 30mpg (hwy). I loved it and could totally see myself getting cars that are MORE fuel efficient in the future.

[termigator69]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

This has been a very interesting read. I'm also disappointed with the mileage I get with my IS (same as 3Fitty). On Premium no less. I would like to add, though, that none of the cars in my family gets less than 20mpg. My wife's 07 Accord EX-L V6 actually averages around 28mpg because it's practically all highways miles.

Personally, I hope Ford & GM will pull through. I am really liking some of their new designs (e.g. Fusion Hybrid, G8, CTS, Malibu), but I won't shed any tears if Chrysler were to fold. I can't think of any product they have which another car company has a better version of and their reliability record is abysmal. IIRC in the last two Consumer Reports auto special, only VW and Mercedes had worse reliability, but overall, they still ranked higher because their vehicles ranked near the top in performance.

BTW, I totally get the brand loyalty thing. I was a diehard domestic car guy in the 80's, but I switched in the 90's and there's just no going back.