What if GM bankrupts ?

[Tuck91]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I was hoping to buy a boat in the near future and was contemplating either and F-150 or a Tundra as my truck of choice to tow it.

I've driven my father-in-law's F-150 and I love it, so maybe I'll give Ford a try when the time comes.

The Tundra really stepped it up in 2007 and got a lot more "truck like".

the only thing that would stop me is the recall that was put out on the 5.7 Liter models for camshaft failures. Might be all over now though

the new F 150 looks good and the 5.4 liter engine got more power this year as well.

Another alternative could be a Chevy Silverado, It just got a new 6.2 liter engine carried over from GMC thats rated at 403 horsepower.

Or you could go with a Silverado HD. The Allison Transmission and Duramax Diesel is a great combo and makes for one powerful truck

Theres a lot to choose from

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

But, Nothing compares to Toyota and Honda. I have an 01' Civic with 300,000 Miles on it and it runs like new. I don't know if an american car can count that high

My Lexus is also an amazing vehicle. The reliability and quality just seems to be so much better these days, but I still want GM, Ford, and Chrysler around

Ford work van in snow belt with 1,000,000 miles on original EVERYTHING and oil changed only once every 10,000 miles.

[Tuck91]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Hey Mark,

did you know a while back that Consumer Reports did a wax test?

i think theres a thread on it around here somewhere

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

The Tundra really stepped it up in 2007 and got a lot more "truck like".

the only thing that would stop me is the recall that was put out on the 5.7 Liter models for camshaft failures. Might be all over now though

the new F 150 looks good and the 5.4 liter engine got more power this year as well.

Another alternative could be a Chevy Silverado, It just got a new 6.2 liter engine carried over from GMC thats rated at 403 horsepower.

Or you could go with a Silverado HD. The Allison Transmission and Duramax Diesel is a great combo and makes for one powerful truck

Theres a lot to choose from

Last I heard Toyota found and fixed the cause of what they termed "sudden catastrophic engine failure" on several of the new heavily touted Toyota Tundra 5.7.

Not sure what they decided to do about the tailgate issue though But heck, if you don't use your Tundra like a real truck and load heavy objects into the bed, or weigh less than 250 pounds, it shouldn't be a big issue...

[Tuck91]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I use my truck for its intended purposes but i dont like to all the time, i havent really used it for any hauling/towing lately since my Dad bought a box truck for that stuff.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Hey Mark,

did you know a while back that Consumer Reports did a wax test?

i think theres a thread on it around here somewhere

I heard about it, and I heard it wasn't terribly useful either.
Apparently these guys on autopia agreed

Here is a short excerpt from the report "When we tested 28 products, including 16 liquid waxes, 5 pastes, and 7 of the spray-on, wipe-off variety, we found that liquid waxes provide the best cleaning and protection. But contrary to conventional wisdom, in our tests they required more effort than paste waxes to apply and remove. As a group, liquids were the hardest to apply evenly, and they took the most work to buff out. "

Reading that leads me to believe the people doing the report don't know what they are doing... They said liquid cleaner waxes clean better than paste cleaner waxes, contrary to what most pros will tell you. Also, they said that liquid waxes were harder to put on evenly than paste...which I can't even understand how that is possible.

Don't worry, I put about as much stock in the CR wax tests as their car tests...

**end detour of the original thread**

[Andy M.]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

[Tuck91]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I just went to my Chevy dealership today just to see some of the 2009 Silverados and talk to a few of the salesmen up there that ive known since i was a little kid and they have about 300 new cars and trucks and they are having a hard time selling them, especially the pickups and SUVs.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

I just went to my Chevy dealership today just to see some of the 2009 Silverados and talk to a few of the salesmen up there that ive known since i was a little kid and they have about 300 new cars and trucks and they are having a hard time selling them, especially the pickups and SUVs.

I don't doubt that a bit. Consumer confidence is extremely low since many people are not sure if GM/Chrysler will be around to warranty the vehicles. They have been hit harder than anyone- but everyone is being crushed right now.

Heck, even the mighty Toyota is on its knees, "European auto companies, as well as the Japanese stalwart Toyota, have also requested emergency assistance from their home governments." NY Times article. That tells you that the entire industry is getting rocked, that's for sure.

GM was down 53%~ by some accounts, Toyota was down 30%~. That's just not good for anyone...

[MyFirstES300]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Mark,

I remember the Camry issue you mentioned in an earlier post. And indeed, the 07-08 Camry's dropped in reliability and customer satisfaction. Hey, it can happen. I attribute this slip to cockiness and complacency on Toyota's part.

On Consumer Reports: You have to use judgment when reading their write up on anything. As far as bias on car reviews and manufacturers, I think all car magazines have some bias to one brand or another. For me personally, I put value in their write-ups and I think they are generally accurate with what they put in print. Again, that's just me.

The way I see it, Ford has no choice but to step up its quality and reliability. Like I mentioned earlier, past ownership of 3 Ford's left a foul taste in my mouth. It'll take some time before I'll reconsider purchasing a Ford.

Thanks for understanding when I wrote that I'd need to see the longer term results before considering a Ford purchase.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Warning, this is coming from a Ford and Porsche guy...

When I look at GM and Chrysler, I question some of their financial activities. Why didn't they have a rainy day fund? Did they have any backup plans?

Remember when large SUV's were the craze? Remember when gas prices were +$4 during the summer? Sure, all the big manufacturers invested heavily in the larger vehicles because they were profitable. But, they did not have a plan if things went south.

For years, people have been purchasing foreign cars. Why? Quality, reliability, and resale value come to mind. But, the American manufacturers must look at these problems and figure out a way to solve them.

I always like to look back in history. Remember British Leyland? Well, I wasn't around then, but I do not want things to end up like that.

[termigator69]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Apparently, CR holds no credibility towards those whose views it does not favor. I could mention other magazines (Car & Driver, MotorTrend, Road & Track) that consistently rate domestics lower than their Japanese counterparts in most categories, but I suspect that their data will also be accused of being uselessly skewed. Therefore, I will just go with personal experience.

I worked for Hertz for a while, and because of that I'm willing to bet that I've driven a much larger sampling of different vehicles than most people here. During this time I found the domestic vehicles to be thoroughly competent vehicles, but when compared to their Japanese counterparts (the Koreans too, for that matter), they just lacked refinement (e.g. fit & finish, interior ergonomics, engine noise/coarseness).

Reliability didn't really fit into the equation because we never kept any car for too long, but most of us did notice that the foreign cars were simply more satisfying to drive.

I'll probably be accused of bias. I'll readily admit it, because I've actually DRIVEN ALL MAKES OF CARS and I like the foreign cars better.

To those who have pledged their undying loyalty to their vehicle company of choice, I just have one question. Have you actually driven the other company's vehicles or have you already made up your mind and you don't want to find out that those folks across the pond might actually know what they're doing?

[Markus Kleis]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

Mark,

I remember the Camry issue you mentioned in an earlier post. And indeed, the 07-08 Camry's dropped in reliability and customer satisfaction. Hey, it can happen. I attribute this slip to cockiness and complacency on Toyota's part.

On Consumer Reports: You have to use judgment when reading their write up on anything. As far as bias on car reviews and manufacturers, I think all car magazines have some bias to one brand or another. For me personally, I put value in their write-ups and I think they are generally accurate with what they put in print. Again, that's just me.

The way I see it, Ford has no choice but to step up its quality and reliability. Like I mentioned earlier, past ownership of 3 Ford's left a foul taste in my mouth. It'll take some time before I'll reconsider purchasing a Ford.

Thanks for understanding when I wrote that I'd need to see the longer term results before considering a Ford purchase.

Agreed on all accounts!

I'm sure if i had bad luck on a few Fords/Toyotas/Lexus/GM/etc in a row, I too would be extremely hesitant to go back...regardless of time or claimed changes. You don't owe them anything, and there is really no reason that you should give them another chance....aside maybe from the fact that at some point they may become the widely accepted better choice-maybe not! Who knows?

To me, I feel that Ford has a rich part in American history, and that has great appeal. I also see that Ford spends more money on research in America than any other company (I was told this by a professor last semester, claimed from an independent study, not sure of the source), and as of 2004 (Most recent report I could find) Ford was in the top 5 for largest employers of Americans (and insanely close to top 3).

I consider myself a very strong and proud American, and so that kind of stuff scores "brownie points" with me. If it was a tie between a foreign car and an American car- I give the tie breaker to home team.

It's just the way I see things...but to others they might give the tie to the foreign car based on reputation! That's that beautiful thing about America...the freedom to choose!

It was a great discussion, and I'm glad everyone could keep this topic informative and friendly...gotta love MOL!

[Tuck91]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

This is a great topic and im glad we had a chance to discuss it in a postive and organized manner like Mark said

[MyFirstES300]

Re: What if GM bankrupts ?

This is a great topic and im glad we had a chance to discuss it in a postive and organized manner like Mark said

If this Forum were to be had anywhere else, it would have gotten brutal! This is one of the reason's I like MOL. No attacks, and everyone addresses each other with decency and professionalism.

A buddy of mine and I were talking about Cadillacs yesterday. Can anyone enlighten me about the V8 they put in between 1980-85? I was told it was an engine that when it reached highway speeds, 4 of the 8 cylinders would cut out for increased gas mileage. Is this true? I also understand they had a major recall on these engines and they were a bad design.

Sounds like a great concept. As I am not mechanically inclined, I'd like to know why GM and other manufacturers don't try to perfect this technology.