Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

You state this based on trying it on one car? Reading many comments on here from the big guys (Mr Stoops), they do state that each paint-car is different, thus you can't make generalisations even on the same type of car, same color... My memory of your original thread was more about people mentioning that you really need a DA, but if you can't, UC is your best bet.. Could remember it wrong...

I am pretty sure my paint is soft, therefore minor marring even using proper technique. Still, only 70% or so of swirls gone. Kinda proves my point. I want to say that marring using UC by hand is fairly common. Even if there is no marring, good luck removing more than 80% of swirls. I feel that I keep repeating myself here. It's doable, but extremely hard, many fail and even the ones that has success won't have 100% success, not even 90% to be honest. It's just something that people, in my opinion, should agree on is not a good idea. Better to do whatever you can with Swirl or Scratch X. They're easier to work with given they're less abrasive and results should be OK as well. Remember, UP can't take on all
marring etc.

No one can justify all that work for OK results and with risk of messing up fundamentally, seriously.

[The Guz]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

To expect 100% swirl removal by hand is in my opinion unrealistic. Especially if the car has been neglected and improperly washed. We don't know the history of the paint and what it's been through. The human arm just doesn't have the necessary power and random orbit that a machine can do. You achieved 70% as you stated and you should be happy. That's more than anyone can accomplish. Ultimate compound is a great product but it's not a magical product.

Claying can marr paint and so can cheap microfibers. I don't care if the paint is soft or hard.

Think of this as a lessons learned. The next time you do it, break it up into sections and do a little each day. There is no rush.

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

To expect 100% swirl removal by hand is in my opinion unrealistic. Especially if the car has been neglected and improperly washed. We don't know the history of the paint and what it's been through. The human arm just doesn't have the necessary power and random orbit that a machine can do. You achieved 70% as you stated and you should be happy. That's more than anyone can accomplish. Ultimate compound is a great product but it's not a magical product.

Claying can marr paint and so can cheap microfibers. I don't care if the paint is soft or hard.

Think of this as a lessons learned. The next time you do it, break it up into sections and do a little each day. There is no rush.

There will be no next time. It's simply not worth the work for 70%. Next time I use UC I will be using a machine unless it's just for a minor correction.

[szladob]

marring using UC by hand is fairly common

many fail and even the ones that has success won't have 100% success, not even 90% to be honest.

No one can justify all that work

I'm still stunned by the generalised comments you make based on your single experience, on a single car (which is more likely to be the exception with its soft paint anyways)

Also lot of people do this as a hobby, so what one can justify could be vastly different from what others do. But most people recommend hand work only panel by panel, which way it is not that awful (I certainly did one panel with UC, UP and ULW, then did the next panel the next time I washed the car.)

I think the other thing to consider, that when you say only 70% of the swirls were removed, that may actually not be the real case, if it is truly a very soft paint. With soft paint, you remove paint quicker then usual, and all that spent residue/paint will be on your applicator (this is certainly an issue with DAs). So in fact, what swirls you have could have been introduced by you, as opposed to not been removed. Kevin Brown even talks about using one drop of M205 in a bottle of water getting result, so you can appreciate that there are lots of variables that are important.
I would still recommend to try UP (or M205), only on one panel at a time, and see where it takes you - if you are keen to make it right....

[Top Gear]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Guz, szladob, Selectchoice, Davey, etc, I respect your opinion, but it seems like you implicitly agree with what's being said - after all, you all have machines, don't you?? If anyone is so sure they can hand-compound an entire black car by themselves, outside and in under 3 days, and even get 50-70% correction without a single hologram or cheetah...PROVE IT. Post some compound-only black car shots like those we often see showing off DA/rotary work, with hard sunlight or halogens or LEDs, very close to the paint, and no cheating with wide angles or distance, non-black paint, irrelevant light angles, polish/wax, or small test spots. Extra points if you can prove your compound-only handiwork is anywhere near as good as a machine, and for a whole car. Just because Meguiar's or other sponsors can do something like that in the comfort of an open garage event with a dozen eager helpers proves nothing for someone who must work outside by themselves with limited time - this is the material and undeniable point. After all, that's why you bought your machine

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Guz, szladob, Selectchoice, Davey, etc, I respect your opinion, but it seems like you implicitly agree with what's being said - after all, you all have machines, don't you?? If anyone is so sure they can hand-compound an entire black car by themselves, outside and in under 3 days, and even get 50-70% correction without a single hologram or cheetah...PROVE IT. Post some compound-only black car shots like those we often see showing off DA/rotary work, with hard sunlight or halogens or LEDs, very close to the paint, and no cheating with wide angles or distance, non-black paint, irrelevant light angles, polish/wax, or small test spots. Extra points if you can prove your compound-only handiwork is anywhere near as good as a machine, and for a whole car. Just because Meguiar's or other sponsors can do something like that in the comfort of an open garage event with a dozen eager helpers proves nothing for someone who must work outside by themselves with limited time - this is the material and undeniable point. After all, that's why you bought your machine

I'd be curious to see if anyone can do that even working a panel or two each weekend. I'd also be curious to know if anyone would feel that it was even remotely worth it with their far, faar, faaar from perfect correction.

[Spazzz]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Made me look up 'compounding car by hand' and found the classic picture from a thread on MOL.

[Top Gear]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Dude, that is so wrong! Talk about "psychedelic" with holograms. Just. Wow.

[The Guz]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Guz, szladob, Selectchoice, Davey, etc, I respect your opinion, but it seems like you implicitly agree with what's being said - after all, you all have machines, don't you?? If anyone is so sure they can hand-compound an entire black car by themselves, outside and in under 3 days, and even get 50-70% correction without a single hologram or cheetah...PROVE IT. Post some compound-only black car shots like those we often see showing off DA/rotary work, with hard sunlight or halogens or LEDs, very close to the paint, and no cheating with wide angles or distance, non-black paint, irrelevant light angles, polish/wax, or small test spots. Extra points if you can prove your compound-only handiwork is anywhere near as good as a machine, and for a whole car. Just because Meguiar's or other sponsors can do something like that in the comfort of an open garage event with a dozen eager helpers proves nothing for someone who must work outside by themselves with limited time - this is the material and undeniable point. After all, that's why you bought your machine

I didn't say anything in regards to compounding in one day by hand. I was stating the fact that it's unrealistic to expect a 100% swirl free finish by hand. Again we don't know the history of the way this car has been maintained. For all we know the op has taken it through a drive through car wash or even washed it with rocks. The point is we don't know. The op should be happy that he accomplished 70% by hand. Is working by hand hard? It sure is. Manual labor is hard. Which is why most of use get a machine.

We also don't know how soft or hard the paint is on the ops car. You and he seem to be on the same page thinking that all paint is the same regardless of car manufacturer. Many of us recommend the test spot regardless if it's by hand or machine.

Don't you have a machine as well? Exactly. I could say the same thing to you about this so called challenge .

As the saying goes, work smarter not harder.

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I am pretty sure my paint is soft, therefore minor marring even using proper technique. Still, only 70% or so of swirls gone. Kinda proves my point.

It doesn't prove anything, other than that's what happened to you. If your paint is indeed soft, then UC is probably the wrong product for it anyway, and the swirls you're seeing are probably caused by the UC.

I want to say that marring using UC by hand is fairly common.....
It's doable, but extremely hard, many fail and even the ones that has success won't have 100% success, not even 90% to be honest.

What do you base the above statements on, other than your particular experience?

I have seen many examples of people successfully correcting entire cars by hand/UC. There was even one in this very thread by Selectchoice (I really hope he comes back with pics).

It's just something that people, in my opinion, should agree on is not a good idea.

Why? Because of what happened to you? What about others who have succeeded?

Better to do whatever you can with Swirl or Scratch X. They're easier to work with given they're less abrasive and results should be OK as well.

Not sure why a product is easier to work with, just because it's less abrasive. That might be the case for softer paints (again, your case), but on harder paints, you'll actually accomplish less with ScratchX or SwirlX rather than UC.

No one can justify all that work for OK results and with risk of messing up fundamentally, seriously.

Seriously, that's why everyone keeps recommending a test spot. If you are getting just 'OK' results in one small area, you have the option of stopping and changing your approach, or doing nothing further, thus avoiding having to do 'all that work'.

It seems pretty simple to me, and I'm struggling to see why you can't understand. It's fine to form your own opinion on a product based on your experience, but don't get on a public forum and preach your views as gospel, when in fact there are countless other experiences to the contrary.

Everyone acknowledged from the start that it wasn't going to be easy by hand, but since a DA isn't an option for you, I still maintain that it's possible. UC is probably just not the right product for your particular paint.

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

It doesn't prove anything, other than that's what happened to you. If your paint is indeed soft, then UC is probably the wrong product for it anyway, and the swirls you're seeing are probably caused by the UC.




What do you base the above statements on, other than your particular experience?

I have seen many examples of people successfully correcting entire cars by hand/UC. There was even one in this very thread by Selectchoice (I really hope he comes back with pics).



Why? Because of what happened to you? What about others who have succeeded?



Not sure why a product is easier to work with, just because it's less abrasive. That might be the case for softer paints (again, your case), but on harder paints, you'll actually accomplish less with ScratchX or SwirlX rather than UC.



Seriously, that's why everyone keeps recommending a test spot. If you are getting just 'OK' results in one small area, you have the option of stopping and changing your approach, or doing nothing further, thus avoiding having to do 'all that work'.

It seems pretty simple to me, and I'm struggling to see why you can't understand. It's fine to form your own opinion on a product based on your experience, but don't get on a public forum and preach your views as gospel, when in fact there are countless other experiences to the contrary.

Everyone acknowledged from the start that it wasn't going to be easy by hand, but since a DA isn't an option for you, I still maintain that it's possible. UC is probably just not the right product for your particular paint.

UC didn't cause the swirls. I was watching it carefully and the same swirls were still there after each time I applied it. Again, 70% or so went away.

Please, provide us with these experiences and close up pictures from the right angles. I have done a lot of research and didn't really find much except for companies and promoters doing small test spots.

Doesnt have to be UC. I just don't think that it's possible for something to be abrasive enough to give great results removing swirls by hand and still not cause other imperfections.

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Do a search on here for "correct black car by hand". Search thread titles only. That gave me half a dozen or so exapmles of where it was done. I'm sure if you search on Autogeek, or even just Google, there will be many more.

Again:

What do you base the above statements on, other than your particular experience?

[szladob]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Again:
What do you base the above statements on, other than your particular experience?

Well, actually reading the thread, he doesn't even have much of an experience with UC on a black car, other than his test spot, and what others told him...

I think there is another important aspect of using UC being ignored here - it is a paint cleaner. Even a relatively light use of it will clean the paint, and make it considerably shinier, and being a consumer product, this aspect is very beneficial for many people..
Expecting show car finish from hand application of a consumer product is silly at best..

Lastly, micromarring caused by a compound is not an unexpected event, but a calculated phase, where the defects get much shallower and more uniform and which can be then perfected by a finishing polish - this is completely normal...

Giving up on UC after your test spot is perfectly acceptable... Not everybody has the same amount of available time and elbow grease.. I even gave up on UC on a DA, because the microfiber system was much quicker; but I don't blame UC for it..

[Selectchoice]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I have seen many examples of people successfully correcting entire cars by hand/UC. There was even one in this very thread by Selectchoice (I really hope he comes back with pics.)

For you Davey, I'd be happy to. However for the purposes of this thread alone I'll be providing no further comment as it has more than run it's natural course.

Consider me...



Give me a shout when civility is restored!

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

lol thanks mate.

I think everyone here is being civil, just getting a little frustrated at times..

A good, spirited discussion!!