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Thread: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

          
  1. #1
    Registered Member Top Gear's Avatar
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    Question Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    My Mirror Glaze foam pads are wearing out, and I'm also ready to move to the next level. My Hyundai/Genesis "Becketts Black" paint is a pearl-metallic, very hard, very chippy. Here's what I'm using, and the issues I'm having...

    Porter Cable 7436SP
    - Products: Mirror Glaze W67DA Backing Plate
    - Issues: Is it powerful enough?
    Mirror Glaze Burgundy Cutting Pad

    - Products: Ultimate Compound or ScratchX
    - Issues: Full-time job in order to get results, even at max speed
    Mirror Glaze Yellow Polishing Pad
    - Product: Ultimate Polish
    - Issues: None
    Mirror Glaze Beige Finishing Pad
    - Product: Gold Class Carnauba Plus Liquid
    - Issues: None (with application)
    Microfibre Rag and Chamois Rag (one in each hand)
    - Product: Gold Class wax removal
    - Issue: Cloudy/blotchy no matter how thin, LOTS of buffing needed, reduced durability

    In this Droid phone shot from a January 2015 correction, you can see there's not much to complain about:



    However, in this Canon camera shot from today following another correction in April, you can see that although the overall finish may look good, there are still spiderwebs in full sun (otherwise invisible). This deck panel was compounded at speed 5 and 6, polished at 5, and then waxed at 3 and then buffed by hand. As I mentioned in another thread, I'd also re-waxed this panel and others a week later due to rain. This picture reveals pollen and dust, but otherwise the car is clean and feels baby smooth to the touch:



    While I need to order new pads, if there's a better pad type for what I need, especially for this hard paint, then let me know. Sometimes, I'm at the limit of what my DA can produce, with the speed on 6/max and pressing down hard over many passes. It really has been a long hard slog to get these results, and this was my 3rd correction this year.

    I'm also thinking my removing wax by hand is re-introducing spiderwebs, or perhaps it's removing so much product they are uncovered again. That is, when I compound thoroughly enough the surface can be near perfect, swirl-wise. Then, once I polish it thoroughly, the surface really is perfect, stunning, swirl-free. Then, I apply the wax with the DA, wait at least 20 minutes and start removing. Because the cloudiness and blotchiness requires a LOT of removal and buffing, and more removal and more buffing, it can seem like I wind up back where I started with these spiderwebs, albeit with a freshly waxed finish to the paint from all the product. Maybe a finishing disc of some kind is in order? Maybe I need MF pads, or even an orbital?

    So, what are your recommendations?
    Non-Garaged Daily Driver, DAMF System + M101, Carnauba Finish Enthusiast
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    Michael The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Invest in the new thin foam discs. It's a good way to take advantage of the PC's power. I would go with the 5" pads. The PC likes smaller pads. Smaller pads= less rotation and more power transferred.

    One thought is that you could be introducing defects with the burgundy soft buff pad. It's been stated that is marrs the paint.

    Here are the new foam discs.

    http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...Backing-Plates

    Here's my review of the new pads on the PC7424XP. The PC you have should still be able to correct just as well.

    http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...m-Discs-Review

    You should not need to be on speed 6. Speed 5 is more than capable. The higher the speed the higher the heat and the less working time you have with the compound you are using. You might also have to adjust your technique and slow your arm movement more, add a little more pressure. work a smaller area.

    The new cutting disc is very impressive. I used it on this complete detail and it finished LSP ready. I was using D300, which is about as aggressive as UC. I did use the new MT300 but the PC can get the job done as well.

    http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...300-Foam-Discs

    If the new discs don't remove those defects then the MF cutting discs would be the next pads to go with.

    As far as towels I'm a fan of the supreme shine microfibers for removing polishes, compounds and waxes. They are also good for applying pray waxes. For drying you can stick with a Meguiar's water magnet or invest in a Dry Me a River or Avalance Super Plush Drying towel from the rag company. I'm not a fan of a chamois. For me personally, I find them to be a tad rough.

    Supreme Shine MF's at a good price

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Meguiar-s-...ingMethod=p13n

    My personal favorite drying towel

    http://www.theragcompany.com/The-Edg...-2040-EL-W.htm

    This one gets good reviews and is highly recommended

    http://www.theragcompany.com/Dry-Me-...42009-2040.htm

  3. #3
    Registered Member Top Gear's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Wow, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I didn't even realize the thin foam pads existed. My Soft Buff "1.0" burgundy pad is disintegrating from the increasing pressure I've put on it.

    I do have one Supreme Shine MF, which I agree is really great. The other MFs I use are the blue-brown-white MFs I find at Advance Auto. I have sets I wash and rotate, including a separate set for correction work, and see no difference between them and the Meg's towel in terms of defects, although the Meg's towel is more plush and soft and "professional". Still, I need to step up for a new correction kit, so I hear you.

    Now, I'm still curious about wax removal and buffing, and was looking at the Cut n' Shine Wool Pad (same backing plate as I currently have) for either removal or buffing. Not sure if that's the right approach, but as I said, the cloudiness of Gold Class (and other waxes I've tried) creates a lot of work to smooth out, so I can't tell if I'm swirling during removal/buff, or just uncovering the swirls I never actually removed or introduced with Soft Buff
    Non-Garaged Daily Driver, DAMF System + M101, Carnauba Finish Enthusiast
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    Michael The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    I can't help you on removal of wax by machine since I remove by hand with a microfiber.

  5. #5
    Registered Member Top Gear's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Yeah, I enjoy buffing by hand after all the DA work. If that's not my problem (removal/buffing), then I'm okay to look elsewhere, other than the cloudiness issue creating all the extra buffing.

    So, I've been reading the threads you linked and I'm sold on these thin foam discs and a new backing plate. Looks like I'm getting to the point many of you were with Soft Buff, and this new release comes at the perfect time for me. I can see how 5" is the way to go, as well.

    I'm also considering a change to the "D" or "M" lines, say D300->302->301, or M1xx->205->26. I'm not sure UC->UP->GC has been a source of my issues, or if it was just the pads, and I do want to stay with a carnauba blended wax and matching QW.
    Non-Garaged Daily Driver, DAMF System + M101, Carnauba Finish Enthusiast
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  6. #6
    Cadillac enthusiast Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    I was pretty much going to say everything that The Guz said in that very detailed reply.. I agree 100%

    And as far as the machine you're using, I didnt even know another similar Porter Cable DA existed. And since I've never heard it mentioned until now I'm guessing it could be an inferior model to the PC900X or whatever the popular 1 is? If so you should just do yourself a favor and upgrade to a HF DA. It's more powerfull and way less expensive to buy than the weaker PC. Use the coupon and you're practicly stealing..

    Dude, your black paint has way too many swirls for someone who's got the OCD/The Sickness.

    You use a microfiber towel in 1 hand and a chamois in the other?
    You still use microfiber towels from Advance Auto? I'm guessing they're the 'All purpose' ones sold in the value pack? Even if you chose the 'premium' Polish/Wax removal microfiber towels they usually sell at the Auto Parts store you will come to find them all pretty much useless for important things like Quik Detailer sprays, Waterless/Rinseless washes.

    I still have about 7 of the 'polishing' microfiber towels I bought at the very beginning for my 1st attempt at correcting by hand. [before I bought a DA]
    And I've come to find those towels pretty much useless compared to standard towels everyone should at least have. Because they're intended for removing wax/polish They do not absorb like a normal towel should. I'd compare them to a bathtowel in terms of efficiency for anything outside of removing polish... They even **** at applying leather conditioner.
    And then there's the 'Multi Purpose' microfibers that are sold there.. I wouldn't use them on paint. Especially black paint. I'm very surprised those are the towels you go with today....

    Then there's the old Burgundy foam pad you say you still use. On a DA? That DA? Cmon dude, between the chamois, the low budget auto store/noob microfiber towels, and the ancient cutting pad intended for rotary use only...
    Well at least there's a perfect explanation to why you havn't been able to achieve desired results or even maintain your black paint. You seriously didn't know about the new Megs Thin Cut Foam Discs until just now?! Haha.

    Step your game up!!!

  7. #7
    Registered Member Top Gear's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Well, you laugh, but that was the idea. Prior to this beginner DA setup, I was previously doing everything by hand, which itself was a step up from just periodic "wash-n-wax" bucket washing, which was a step up from the occasional trip to a spray wash, which is a step up from what most people I know doing nothing at all, or a yearly wash.

    So, I agree with both of you on the need to step up from the W7006. That is a fixed point now in my thinking. I'm liking the thin foam idea, but also I'm comparing to the MF system. I'm also not sure about 2-step vs 3, since I love UP so much.

    However, you can spare me the silly brand snobbery on most everything else, Eldorado. Like I said, I have been using a Meg's Superior Shine towel right alongside the cheaper MF. The SS is a great towel, but there's no difference whatsoever in finishing quality, and I even generally prefer the smaller size of the blue, brown and white rags over the much larger SS towel. It's also easier to keep track of sets, using, say, blue for QD and cleaning, brown for correction work, white for QW, interior or other finish work.

    As for the PC, it's a lower amperage version of the 7242XP with only an 800 RPM difference in lower top speed, 6000 vs 6800 RPM, otherwise identical. Given what I now know about the cutting pad and UC I've been using, the top speed shouldn't matter, since I shouldn't have to use it at top speed. The 7436SP was also just a different packaging kit as sold by stores like Lowe's and Home Depot, but I don't use the polishing/sanding kit it came with, since I use the W67DA backing plate and so on.

    So, I'm still asking about non-silly recommendations on 2-step "Detailer" vs 3-Step methods, removal and buffing with machine vs hand and what products that requires, as well as advice on whether to change from consumer to pro lines of bottled products. Otherwise, I'm convinced I need to move to either the thin foam or MF discs.
    Non-Garaged Daily Driver, DAMF System + M101, Carnauba Finish Enthusiast
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    Registered Member Top Gear's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Oops, a typo survived my 10-minute limit. I meant the PC 7424XP above (not 7242), that is, the model commonly referred to in forums. My questions about the machine are whether to move to a Flex or a regular rotary. For example, I saw a pro paint guy working with a small rotary with a "mop" head MF and 3M compound. A few short rotations and the result was more than I could get with endless hours using the Soft Buff burgundy pad and UC.

    Also, I just checked again and mine has 4.5 amps with a top speed of 6800 RPM.
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    Michael The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gear View Post
    Porter Cable 7436SP
    - Products: Mirror Glaze W67DA Backing Plate
    - Issues: Is it powerful enough?[B]

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Gear View Post
    Yeah, I enjoy buffing by hand after all the DA work. If that's not my problem (removal/buffing), then I'm okay to look elsewhere, other than the cloudiness issue creating all the extra buffing.

    So, I've been reading the threads you linked and I'm sold on these thin foam discs and a new backing plate. Looks like I'm getting to the point many of you were with Soft Buff, and this new release comes at the perfect time for me. I can see how 5" is the way to go, as well.

    I'm also considering a change to the "D" or "M" lines, say D300->302->301, or M1xx->205->26. I'm not sure UC->UP->GC has been a source of my issues, or if it was just the pads, and I do want to stay with a carnauba blended wax and matching QW.
    If you do in fact have the W67DA backing plate then it will work with the new 5" foam discs. No need to change it out for the new one. I did just realize something else as I was typing this. The soft buff pads are ~7 inches. The W68DA backing plate would have been the better choice.

    Try the liquids you have now prior to switching to something else. The foam cutting disks are fairly close the the cutting ability of the microfiber cutting discs. If the liquids work then you saved yourself some money. One thing I would consider is moving up to M205 versus UP. It's such a versatile product.

    You can mix between lines. There is no set rule on staying within one family of products. They are all intended to work together. For example you could use D300 + MF cutting > M205 + foam polishing > LSP of choice.

    One thing to note is that you should not need to constantly compound. That will remove more paint than simply polishing.


    Adjust your technique prior to making a switch over to other liquids. The PC you have should still be able to give you some good correction.


    On a side note these are my findings of using these products.

    D300 and UC are pretty close in aggressiveness. The benefit of D300 is that it's designed to be used with the DAMF system but works very well with foam. Any compound can be used with the MF pads but some can dust more than others. D300 has become my go to compound if I need to compound.

    D302 is intended to be used with the DAMF system. It does not have the correction power that UP or M205 has when used with foam. From a post that Mr. Stoops made long ago, D302 can be used on a foam finishing pad to possibly add more gloss after using something like M205 or UP.

    D301 is a cleaner wax. I believe you know that a cleaner wax will remove anything that was applied prior to it. The correction power is enhanced with the microfiber finishing disc. The durability is similar to any cleaner wax(~2-3 months).

    I still prefer M205 over UP. UP is a solid product but the versatility of M205 is what it great about it. It also finishes down nicely.

    I have used M105 and it's a fine product but the frustration of using it can get to someone. It has a short working time and has a learning curve to it. M101 is what M105 should be in my opinion. It has a longer working time and can finish LSP ready. I gave my remaining M105 away to another member on here. I prefer M101, UC and D300 over it.

    On a side note, have you considered the idea of using a sealant and wax combo. Ultimate wax topped with M26 is an amazing combo or even M21 topped with M26. I say ultimate wax because it darkens the paint more than M21. You won't have to wax as often.

    If you are looking for a significant upgrade in machine consider the new MT300. It's not as expensive as a flex and is more than capable of doing the job. If you are not familiar with a rotary don't bother with it. You risk the chance of burning through the paint.

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    Cadillac enthusiast Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

    @TopGear. I'm sorry if I came off as snobbish in any way. I tried to put a smily face or lol at the end of most of my comments as they weren't meant to come across as harsh or rude. If they did, I appologize.

    And hey we've all got our quirks an ways of doing things our certain way so I agree with you in more ways than not. At the end of the day I was just trying to nudge you in what might be the right direction to try some of these newer great working products such as Ultimate Wash & Wax Anywhere/D115 etc...

    As far as towels, I still strongly suggest investing in a fresh new 20pk. of Supreme Shines sold on Walmarts site for $29. Everyones level of a perfectly usable towel can vary greatly. But 1 things for sure, towels can make a world of difference. Starting with a fresh 20 and demoting all current towels to all purpose/door jamb status couldnt hurt.

    As far as upgrading DA? I would recommend starting options at the HF DA for cheapest upgrade paired with either DAMF pads/D300 and through in M205 as The Guz suggested. That 205 is a must have in your toolbox.

    I dont know about you, but stop and take a serious look at the MT300 before overdoing a purchase and getting a Flex. I just don't see why such a leap would be needed in your case. Plus if you were to stick with your current DA or get a HF DA, you could use the money you saved to splurge on alot of new to you products you're sure to love. Good luck!

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