Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I think your somewhat negative tone about the UC product is not quite fair. I have used it both by hand, and by DA in the past, although not on a black car. Using it by hand got rid of many small imperfections, and perhaps 40-50% of swirls, which I thought at the time was a great result. In other words, it worked really well as a paint cleaner, and the car looked much better after the treatment. Being a light coloured metallic car, removing all the swirls or half of them doesn't really make a noticeable difference during daylight to be - sadly - perfectly honest (as I later realized). Then moved on to DA, yellow pads, and that was perhaps 80ish % swirl removal.... Then tried the microfiber discs with d300, and we started to face the possibility of total swirl removal... I'm sure doing many many more passes with UC would have reached the goal, but didn't have the time...
So UC is a great product, but you have to be a bit more realistic what can be achieved, and this is where the test spot comes in. If it takes huge effort to reach your goal in a small area, then yes, doing the whole car will take many days (by hand), section by section.... Lastly, not being able to use a DA, but wanting to achieve result, then UC is still the best option...

The issue is not the removing of swirls but the marring, hazing and holograms that it will cause on black paint working by hand. Try it and then inspect the area from different angles in direct sunlight and you will see.

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

It won't necessarily cause marring on all paints. Only softer paints and/or where an aggressive method is used.

Even if it does marr, it's no big deal. That's what finishing polishes (such as UP or M205) are for!

[szladob]

That's a fair point, but that may imply a very soft paint; lots can be found on this forum about the differences in paint hardness. If the problem is too soft paint, then UP or M205 will likely make those disappear (or in fact, a less aggressive product could have been better in the first place). In either case, the test spot (even if flat hood) should have showed the same marring, hazing, cheetah spots, etc. Nonetheless, you can still make things right, quickly by DA, or slowly by hand with a mild product, such as UP (or M205) - I would say those will need less time then UC... Hope this helps. Let me say this- UC was a great enough product that sucked me in to purchase a DA, pads, then microfiber system, on and on and on...

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

It won't necessarily cause marring on all paints. Only softer paints and/or where an aggressive method is used.

Even if it does marr, it's no big deal. That's what finishing polishes (such as UP or M205) are for!

How can anyone promote working a black car with UC by hand? It is very likely to cause marring. You will likely have to work hard to get rid of it with UP....and trust me, this is not easy either,. Once that is done, there will still be 30% swirls left or so. It just doesn't make any sense to even consider it as an option.

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I don't think it's fair to generalise based on your experience.

I have corrected several areas on black cars successfully with UC by hand. Granted, it wasn't a whole car (I'd bust out the DA for that) but still, there's no reason why the results achieved on a particular area cannot be duplicated over the entire vehicle..

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I don't think it's fair to generalise based on your experience.

I have corrected several areas on black cars successfully with UC by hand. Granted, it wasn't a whole car (I'd bust out the DA for that) but still, there's no reason why the results achieved on a particular area cannot be duplicated over the entire vehicle..

There is a reason and the reason is we are humans and not robots. Like I said earlier, give 100 guys a go on a black car and I feel pretty confident that only a couple would have success and not cause any new imperfections. It's not easy, takes a lot of hard work, and even then, plenty of swirls. Seriously bro, not a good idea to recommend it to people in my opinion.

I have had success doing smaller corrections with UC as well but it's not easy.

[Selectchoice]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

There is a reason and the reason is we are humans and not robots. Like I said earlier, give 100 guys a go on a black car and I feel pretty confident that only a couple would have success and not cause any new imperfections. It's not easy, takes a lot of hard work, and even then, plenty of swirls. Seriously bro, not a good idea to recommend it to people in my opinion.

I trust what Davey has said regarding the use of UC on a black (or any dark coloured car for that matter). He is experienced with many products and even reported his actual experience with the product in his post on the matter.

I have owned many black cars, and while now I have a DA (or two, or three....and a rotary polisher as well) when UC came out I was amazed at it's corrective abilities. So much so that I did my whole black car with it, and yes by hand. No holograms, no swirls remained. No cheetah spots either. This was without a finishing polish either I may point out.

When you are detailing any car, regardless of colour, technique is critical, whether you're using a DA or using your hands to apply the particular product.

All paints will differ to some degree in the level of 'hardness/softness', even from the same manufacturer. That's where a test spot comes in. You test and then repeat that exact process throughout the car once you've achieved success in the test area.

It may take a long time, and it may be a struggle physically, but it most certainly can be done using the correct technique and applicator, on most paint types.

Remember, you're stating your 'opinion' here, just as I and others are when they post their experiences. I feel your posts are quite dismissive of other's opinions in some of your posts. Many of the people responding to your post are very experienced and have posted pictures of their work in addition to helping newcomers to MOL achieve better results by contributing to their posts. Maybe some mutual respect could be shown.

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I trust what Davey has said regarding the use of UC on a black (or any dark coloured car for that matter). He is experienced with many products and even reported his actual experience with the product in his post on the matter.

I have owned many black cars, and while now I have a DA (or two, or three....and a rotary polisher as well) when UC came out I was amazed at it's corrective abilities. So much so that I did my whole black car with it, and yes by hand. No holograms, no swirls remained. No cheetah spots either. This was without a finishing polish either I may point out.

When you are detailing any car, regardless of colour, technique is critical, whether you're using a DA or using your hands to apply the particular product.

All paints will differ to some degree in the level of 'hardness/softness', even from the same manufacturer. That's where a test spot comes in. You test and then repeat that exact process throughout the car once you've achieved success in the test area.

It may take a long time, and it may be a struggle physically, but it most certainly can be done using the correct technique and applicator, on most paint types.

Remember, you're stating your 'opinion' here, just as I and others are when they post their experiences. I feel your posts are quite dismissive of other's opinions in some of your posts. Many of the people responding to your post are very experienced and have posted pictures of their work in addition to helping newcomers to MOL achieve better results by contributing to their posts. Maybe some mutual respect could be shown.

If there were no holograms or anything at all, before polish and wax, I am truly impressed. Do you have any pictures?

I respect everyone here, I am just stating my own opinion on things.

[Selectchoice]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

If there were no holograms or anything at all, before polish and wax, I am truly impressed. Do you have any pictures?

Yes.

[Top Gear]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Great discussion! I don't think SC was being disrespectful in any way, nor is he wrong. The other guys aren't exactly wrong, either. It's also not about UC. The question is about hand-compounding an entire vehicle, and matching machine-compounding quality and consistency, particularly on black/dark, by one person, working in their spare time, probably outside, and probably just starting out with such work. Personally, I also get a kick whenever I hear advice about black cars from anyone who doesn't regularly correct or maintain a black daily driver.

If you're energetic as well as patient and careful and have lots of time to prove a point, sure, it's theoretically possible to hand-compound an entire vehicle with hard and/or black paint and have respectable results. I've tried it...or mostly, anyway (and gave up, ordering my PC, see my first correction thread). Repeating that performance reliably when the car needs it again is another question, and matching a machine is a wild claim, IMO, most especially for a hard black paint which may have more than just minor swirls. You can surely wipe on some compound and clean/"clay" the surface, but compared to the dozens of machine passes I've had to put in to get a true correction (see my DAMF thread), there's just no comparison - it would be impossible to do that by hand, in my case. If someone has done it, though, I'm curious to see some comparison or close-up pics, as well as a time estimate, weather conditions, how many people helped, etc. Again, I'm just talking about aggressive and consistent compounding.

Otherwise, the reality is a far cry from some of the more enthusiastic and theoretical advice I sometimes read. Just because something is possible (even fun), in like an open garage event, or shooting the next viral video, say with several or many people working in relative comfort, it by no means proves the same exact task would be easy enough for one person, working outside in the elements (say in the hot and humid Southern US) with no moral support or feedback, and with a time constraint. Honestly, I can't even imagine doing what I did with DAMF just working by hand! I'd also be amused to see how long someone lasts here in the South in 90+ degrees with high humidity hugging shade while compounding that black car by hand. It'd be easier just to use the sweat sheeting off of me as a wet-sand lube

So, there's theory, and then there's practice. Theory is very helpful, of course, but practice must be respected too.

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Great discussion! I don't think SC was being disrespectful in any way, nor is he wrong. The other guys aren't exactly wrong, either. It's also not about UC. The question is about hand-compounding an entire vehicle, and matching machine-compounding quality and consistency, particularly on black/dark, by one person, working in their spare time, probably outside, and probably just starting out with such work. Personally, I also get a kick whenever I hear advice about black cars from anyone who doesn't regularly correct or maintain a black daily driver.

If you're energetic as well as patient and careful and have lots of time to prove a point, sure, it's theoretically possible to hand-compound an entire vehicle with hard and/or black paint and have respectable results. I've tried it...or mostly, anyway (and gave up, ordering my PC, see my first correction thread). Repeating that performance reliably when the car needs it again is another question, and matching a machine is a wild claim, IMO, most especially for a hard black paint which may have more than just minor swirls. You can surely wipe on some compound and clean/"clay" the surface, but compared to the dozens of machine passes I've had to put in to get a true correction (see my DAMF thread), there's just no comparison - it would be impossible to do that by hand, in my case. If someone has done it, though, I'm curious to see some comparison or close-up pics, as well as a time estimate, weather conditions, how many people helped, etc. Again, I'm just talking about aggressive and consistent compounding.

Otherwise, the reality is a far cry from some of the more enthusiastic and theoretical advice I sometimes read. Just because something is possible (even fun), in like an open garage event, or shooting the next viral video, say with several or many people working in relative comfort, it by no means proves the same exact task would be easy enough for one person, working outside in the elements (say in the hot and humid Southern US) with no moral support or feedback, and with a time constraint. Honestly, I can't even imagine doing what I did with DAMF just working by hand! I'd also be amused to see how long someone lasts here in the South in 90+ degrees with high humidity hugging shade while compounding that black car by hand. It'd be easier just to use the sweat sheeting off of me as a wet-sand lube

So, there's theory, and then there's practice. Theory is very helpful, of course, but practice must be respected too.

Well put.

Oh, about the heat. It was close to 90 degrees in the underground garage when I worked on the car. It was my first time and claying, polishing and waxing took me around 10 hours if I'm not mistaken. Went through three t-shirts. Last hour was horrible, I felt so sick. On top of this, I had wiped my face with my dirty hands all day, and all those chemicals doesn't do pretty things to your face. I was red like a tomato for two days and then I started peeling. Good times, good times. I tried using thin rubber gloves but they were too uncomfortable and made me loose some technique.

[davey g-force]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

Personally, I also get a kick whenever I hear advice about black cars from anyone who doesn't regularly correct or maintain a black daily driver.

Not sure if you're talking about me, but I'd just like to clarify: I owned a black car for 7 years before selling it just last month and buying a white one. (I now have two white cars and am slowly regaining my sanity lol).

I also do some detailing on the side and some of those vehicles are black.

Oh and it also gets hot here (between 30 to 40 degrees Celsius) in summer.

[szladob]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

How can anyone promote working a black car with UC by hand? It is very likely to cause marring. You will likely have to work hard to get rid of it with UP....and trust me, this is not easy either,. Once that is done, there will still be 30% swirls left or so. It just doesn't make any sense to even consider it as an option.

I am still not sure where you got the idea, that it was "promoted" to do a whole black car by hand... I think what was promoted was to use a DA.. If that is not an option, then we are not talking about promoted scenarios, but what could still be possibly done...

I have also got great results on a black Audi in small areas with hand,in terms of getting rid of holograms and swirls, and being a hard paint, there was no marring or other damage introduced by my technique at all, just purely better looking paint in the area that was worked.. (I thought I had pics of it, but can't find it).. Seeing the amazing results I could achieve by hand both on my light metallic car and on the black car, I did invest in a machine, and got more and more into it, as I simply don't have the time and energy to try to do it by hand on a whole car, and the results are likely to be better with a machine anyways.. But is terms of advice, it wasn't promoted to go ahead and do it by hand, but stated that it is theoretically possible to get the paint seriously looking better with UC. On the other hand, if you happened to have a very soft paint, even a machine with a more aggressive compound will give you lot's of headaches (at least based on what I am reading on this forum), so can't emphasize enough the need for the test spot... So if you haven't done a test spot, or missed the fact that your hand application on that paint was problematic, it's not fair the slam the product that is really outstanding in its correcting and finishing ability in the majority of situation (maybe not in your unique one)... But as I said again, in my previous experience, using ultimate polish should be much much easier/quicker than UC... So if you still can't find any place/friend where you could use a DA, then again you are in a salvaging situation, where things are not promoted, but mentioned that you may try...

[SwedishCanadian]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

I am still not sure where you got the idea, that it was "promoted" to do a whole black car by hand... I think what was promoted was to use a DA.. If that is not an option, then we are not talking about promoted scenarios, but what could still be possibly done...

I have also got great results on a black Audi in small areas with hand,in terms of getting rid of holograms and swirls, and being a hard paint, there was no marring or other damage introduced by my technique at all, just purely better looking paint in the area that was worked.. (I thought I had pics of it, but can't find it).. Seeing the amazing results I could achieve by hand both on my light metallic car and on the black car, I did invest in a machine, and got more and more into it, as I simply don't have the time and energy to try to do it by hand on a whole car, and the results are likely to be better with a machine anyways.. But is terms of advice, it wasn't promoted to go ahead and do it by hand, but stated that it is theoretically possible to get the paint seriously looking better with UC. On the other hand, if you happened to have a very soft paint, even a machine with a more aggressive compound will give you lot's of headaches (at least based on what I am reading on this forum), so can't emphasize enough the need for the test spot... So if you haven't done a test spot, or missed the fact that your hand application on that paint was problematic, it's not fair the slam the product that is really outstanding in its correcting and finishing ability in the majority of situation (maybe not in your unique one)... But as I said again, in my previous experience, using ultimate polish should be much much easier/quicker than UC... So if you still can't find any place/friend where you could use a DA, then again you are in a salvaging situation, where things are not promoted, but mentioned that you may try...

It was promoted in another thread to go ahead and use UC even if I had to work by hand. I did a test spot, thankfully, so no harm really. It was after doing the test spot and talking to other guys that I came to the conclusion not to do the whole car. We've been through this many times on here... It's a good product. But using it by hand on most black cars takes so much work and precision that just a very selected number of people would be able to achieve good results...and even then, we are talking only 70-80% swirls removal....simply not worth it and more importantly not something that should be recommended...LOTS of hard work for only a good, not great result...it's doable in theory, but several experienced guys on here really need to rethink this.

[szladob]

Re: Detailed jet black mazda 6 2014

on most black cars

You state this based on trying it on one car? Reading many comments on here from the big guys (Mr Stoops), they do state that each paint-car is different, thus you can't make generalisations even on the same type of car, same color... My memory of your original thread was more about people mentioning that you really need a DA, but if you can't, UC is your best bet.. Could remember it wrong...