Steps after claying

[DanielM]

Since there are no standardized terms, I will use the Mike Phillps glossary.

Paint Cleaner
A liquid, paste or cream that relies primarily on chemical cleaning agents to remove any light topical contamination or surface impurities to restore a clean, smooth surface as part of a process to prepare a painted finish for application of a wax, paint sealant or coating. Paint cleaners are for very light cleaning and not normally intended to be used like an abrasive polish to remove below surface defects.

Polish
A liquid or paste that uses some type of abrasive technology to cut or abrade the paint

After claying your car, do you:

A: Polish your entire car and apply a sealant wax?
B Polish only the marring and scratches and apply a paint cleaner then wax/seal?


I see a lot of people doing A (maybe terms are mixed up) but is there a need to use an abrasive on the entire car?


Also, does megs carry a non-abrasive paint cleaner/ cleaner wax in the sense that it will take out zero clear coat? I know even their deep crystal paint cleaner has some diminishing abrasives. I am looking for one that I can use when not claying first and I was always told never to use a polish without claying first.


I hate abrasives (clay and polish) and would like to wash and seal or after a while wash, paint clean and seal to avoid using them.

[The Guz]

Re: Steps after claying

The amount of paint that is removed with an abrasive cleaner wax is so minute that it is negligible. Same with a fine abrasive polish such as ultimate polish. Abrasive technology has come a long way. The abrasives is what is doing the work to remove paint defects (swirls, scratches, marring, etc). A non abrasive paint cleaner will not do that.

Clay does not remove paint. It removes the contaminants that sitting on top of the paint. The contaminants affect the performance of the wax or sealant can not bond to the paint. The longevity is affected. Google the baggie method and clay.

Those of us who are OCD will do A.

[Murr1525]

Re: Steps after claying

I've certainly have one area a deeper cleaning, and then cleaner waxed and waxed everything.

[Top Gear]

Re: Steps after claying

DanielM, I think you're confused as to what is "abrasive". Claying is not abrasive in the least, if done right, with lots of "lube", such as quik detailer. It cleverly lifts contaminants off the surface without affecting the surrounding area. There is a tendency for the clay to grab and streak sometimes, but even that is non-abrasive. It is a LOT of work, though, and the whole car may only need to be done once every several/many years, if well maintained (see below).

Meguiar's polishes, even the ones with a tiny bit of abrasive, like Ultimate Polish/M205, are just not abrasive in any real world sense. The dual-action pad itself can provide some abrasion and "jeweling" using a polish, but that's about it. Most of the compounds are mildly abrasive, and you'd have trouble doing any damage to your paint with them on newer vehicles. Even M101, probably the most aggressive product Meguiar's makes, is quite mild in real terms. Some compounds "finish well", which means they work as polishes in one combo step. The real abrasion today comes with machine technique using these products, rather than relying on "rocks in a bottle" abrasion from yesteryear.

Also, none of the waxes are abrasive in any real sense (although the machine pad might be). Cleaner-waxes help clean the surface, of course, but that is not truly abrading the paint/clear, but just cutting through the layers of hidden dirt.

Standard Steps for a Full Correction:

1. Wash/Clean
2. Clay/Inspect
3. Sanding Wet or Dry (not for beginners or the faint of heart, very abrasive)
4. Compound (mildly abrasive)
5. Polish (oils and "jeweling")
6. Wax (protection of 2-5)

Daily/Weekly Maintenance Approaches:

• Full Bucket Wash (as needed, not as habit)
• Dusting (habit)
• Waterless Wash (habit)
• Spray Wax (habit)

Of course, after you do one of these full corrections, you'll understand why we want to protect that hard work as long as possible, months and years, with almost daily maintenance, which is far easier. Mostly, though, you'll be doing mini-corrections, skipping most steps, or using more on bad spots, fewer on the whole car, or simply re-waxing. So, unless you have some amazingly soft paint, hand-claying, machine-polishing, and machine-waxing with a cleaner-wax will together offer almost no real surface abrasion at all, although the finish will look great.

[DanielM]

Re: Steps after claying

So are you saying a very light abrasive paint cleaner/wax is okay to use without claying first? So am I correct to say that deep crystal paint cleaner would be okay without claying but something like ScratchX 2.0 would not?

[DanielM]

Re: Steps after claying

DanielM, I think you're confused as to what is "abrasive". Claying is not abrasive in the least, if done right, with lots of "lube", such as quik detailer. It cleverly lifts contaminants off the surface without affecting the surrounding area. There is a tendency for the clay to grab and streak sometimes, but even that is non-abrasive. It is a LOT of work, though, and the whole car may only need to be done once every several/many years, if well maintained (see below).

Meguiar's polishes, even the ones with a tiny bit of abrasive, like Ultimate Polish/M205, are just not abrasive in any real world sense. The dual-action pad itself can provide some abrasion and "jeweling" using a polish, but that's about it. Most of the compounds are mildly abrasive, and you'd have trouble doing any damage to your paint with them on newer vehicles. Even M101, probably the most aggressive product Meguiar's makes, is quite mild in real terms. Some compounds "finish well", which means they work as polishes in one combo step. The real abrasion today comes with machine technique using these products, rather than relying on "rocks in a bottle" abrasion from yesteryear.

Also, none of the waxes are abrasive in any real sense (although the machine pad might be). Cleaner-waxes help clean the surface, of course, but that is not truly abrading the paint/clear, but just cutting through the layers of hidden dirt.

Standard Steps for a Full Correction:

1. Wash/Clean
2. Clay/Inspect
3. Sanding Wet or Dry (not for beginners or the faint of heart, very abrasive)
4. Compound (mildly abrasive)
5. Polish (oils and "jeweling")
6. Wax (protection of 2-5)

Daily/Weekly Maintenance Approaches:

• Full Bucket Wash (as needed, not as habit)
• Dusting (habit)
• Waterless Wash (habit)
• Spray Wax (habit)

Of course, after you do one of these full corrections, you'll understand why we want to protect that hard work as long as possible, months and years, with almost daily maintenance, which is far easier. Mostly, though, you'll be doing mini-corrections, skipping most steps, or using more on bad spots, fewer on the whole car, or simply re-waxing. So, unless you have some amazingly soft paint, hand-claying, machine-polishing, and machine-waxing with a cleaner-wax will together offer almost no real surface abrasion at all, although the finish will look great.

So are you saying you can use an abrasive polish like M101 as a cleaner when you don't feel the need to clay?

I was looking at sites like this "We recommend using a clay bar roughly twice a year, or before details where you plan on polishing the paint. If your car is subject to industrial fallout or heavily contaminated areas, using a clay bar more often may be required." http://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-Detailing-Guide/Clay-Bar/

"Be sure to thoroughly clean the vehicle to remove any and all dirt, debris, bugs, leaves, etc. All of this gets in the way of polishing, and if there’s any dirt or debris left on the surface, it can get caught in the pad while polishing and you could risk doing more damage than good".http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-Pro/what-grade-clay-bar-should-i-purchase/


I also thought clay was abrasive that is why they have a fine vs medium.

"Many claim that clay bars are not abrasive but that is incorrect. They are all abrasive to a degree, some add more abrasives than others and these are usually identified as being “hot” bars. I actually removed the clear from a cars lower panel once using a “hot” bar, so be cautious!

Does the clay bar actually remove contaminates or does it just shave off the top, making the specks flush with the paint? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the contaminate. The clay bar may not totally remove rail dust, but it will shave off the protruding particles. It will, however, easily remove tree sap or paint over spray."

http://www.topoftheline.com/auto-detail-clay.html

[The Guz]

Re: Steps after claying

Clay is an abrasive in terms of it being able to remove above surface contaminants. Depending on when the paint was last clayed, a medium grade clay be needed or maybe a fine grade clay is all that is needed. A an aggressive clay bar has the potential to marr the surface. A polish or cleaner wax will remove that. I would recommend you pick up the clay kit that comes with the spray detailer and clay lube.

I would highly recommend you clay prior to using any wax or sealant. You risk the potential to possibly have a contaminant get stuck in the pad which would cause more paint defects. It is not hard to clay. It does not take long to do. It is true that it is recommended to clay once or twice a year. Use the baggie test to determine if you have to. Routinely wash it and you can limit the amount of contaminants on the paint.

M101 is a compound which is more aggressive than a polish. A compound will remove more paint than a polish.

Here are some good videos to watch

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?41790-Meguiar-s-Quik-Tips-Video-Series-Washing#vKtbZKH6QZ4D0FJW.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?42524-Meguiar-s-Quik-Tips-Video-Series-Claying#lltPKD6QfeRet8FR.97

[Top Gear]

Re: Steps after claying

Yeah, so, I think you have to avoid getting hung up on different forums and videos and terms, and just get out there and try things. Of course, use the least aggressive methods first, so that you see how things work. There are lots of threads here on how to get started with a great wash and wax. Maybe you then want to try claying or polishing on a small test spot, etc. Look at it over a few days in different lights to see how it works for you, then rework based on that. Any combination of the steps is fine in theory, depending on what is needed, but knowing what is needed and what will work on your paint takes time to test and learn the hard way, with your hands on your paint. Can M101 replace the clay step? You bet it can, but not on neglected paint that feels like sandpaper after you've already washed it thoroughly. Is claying abrasive? Not in my experience, but it's also easy to make mistakes and create scratches. Simple answers on a discussion forum are only guides, not rules. Without pictures of your car, we can only guess what might be needed right now.

[DanielM]

Re: Steps after claying

Clay is an abrasive in terms of it being able to remove above surface contaminants. Depending on when the paint was last clayed, a medium grade clay be needed or maybe a fine grade clay is all that is needed. A an aggressive clay bar has the potential to marr the surface. A polish or cleaner wax will remove that. I would recommend you pick up the clay kit that comes with the spray detailer and clay lube.

I would highly recommend you clay prior to using any wax or sealant. You risk the potential to possibly have a contaminant get stuck in the pad which would cause more paint defects. It is not hard to clay. It does not take long to do. It is true that it is recommended to clay once or twice a year. Use the baggie test to determine if you have to. Routinely wash it and you can limit the amount of contaminants on the paint.

M101 is a compound which is more aggressive than a polish. A compound will remove more paint than a polish.

Here are some good videos to watch

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?41790-Meguiar-s-Quik-Tips-Video-Series-Washing#vKtbZKH6QZ4D0FJW.97

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...D6QfeRet8FR.97

Thanks. I usually do a full detail 2x per year and called it a day but I wanted to start mini detailing to keep the car pristine year round.

I only clayed about 2 months ago so I wanted to do a quick clean and reseal. I was always told to never use an abrasive without claying because it might release trapped dirt causing scratches. That is why I was looking for a non abrasive paint cleaner.

I guess from reading the forum it seems that Megs uses different terms than Mike Phillips. They consider a paint cleaner abrasive and a polish as adding oils and shining the clear.

I think I need to stick with one company for all my products because it is easy to use the wrong product due to terminology.

So I guess what would you recommend for the mini detail when I want to wash, revitalize my paint, and seal? Would something like Megs deep crystal polish be what I am looking for?

[The Guz]

Re: Steps after claying

Well if you have a coat of wax or sealant on the paint, a spray wax like ultimate quik wax always works well. It can be used after every wash or every other wash and even as a drying aid. Search the forum on using ultimate quik wax or D156 as a drying aid.