help needed!

[valferca]

Re: help needed!

Yes, clay the paint, especially if it has not been clayed since purchase. Otherwise you will gum up your pads with dirt and grime from the unclean and unstripped paint. The Meguiar's clay kit will include everything you need from clay to spray to microfiber towel.
And yes you can in theory do everything in one day without harm. However, if this is your first time polishing and buffing, this might take a day PLUS! It also is dependent on the condition of your paint and how hard the clear coat is to cut through.

And for the wax that is a totally up to you choice. Here's my quick reviews of the Meg's waxes and a couple other little waxes I like and have experience with:

Meg's Gold Class (liquid): Heavy on polishing oils and fillers, it leaves an incredibly deep and dark shine up there with some of the best beauty waxes. Longevity is not much, but it is fairly easy to apply and remove. I like it as a show/trade-in wax.

Meg's Ultimate Wax (liquid): A highly reflective and glossy synthetic sealant that outlasts just about everything. It goes on thin and make sure you put it on thin or else it will streak like crazy. Overall champ for cars not able to be waxed every few weeks, looks great on light colors accenting the pearl in paint quite well.

Meg's NXT 2.0 (Liquid) I don't have a ton of experience with this one but the few times I have used it I have been impressed at how easy it is to apply and remove adds a nice gloss and lasts somewhere in between the two previously mentioned waxes. Very good overall wax, a favorite amount a lot of people.

Now for some other recommendations I have, I have a obsessive collection of waxes so this is sorta my jam.

Collinite 845: This stuff is legendary for a reason! It goes on super thin, I suggest applying with a buffer for best results and you will use about 1/4 to 1/3 an ounce for a whole car. Not a great deal of show car shine, but greatly accents many a daily drivers just fine providing a few months of properly maintained protection. I recommend this over the 915 wax they offer because it is MUCH easier to apply and remove and use in general. 915 is a OUTSTANDING wax, but not for the light hearted.

Detailer's Pro Poli-Seal: I actually came by this sealant by accident, but it has become a staple for me! Super thin and easy speeding. Leaves a glassy finish, and the slickness it leaves on the paint makes you want to just keep feeling the car, its crazy. Lasts upwards of 4 months from my experience.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: Use what you like and what works for you. I'm just throwing out a few things I know, but everyone has their own preferences and opinions. Just use what YOU love!

Hope I helped and answered everything!
Roll Tide (This Sugar Bowl is driving me crazy)
Griffith Hawk

Hi Ghawk,
thanks for such a detailed review about the waxes. It was really helpful. I'll be using the Ultimate Wax to see how it goes. I got The Meguiar's clay kit as well so should be good to go now

[valferca]

Re: help needed!

watch this one on claying properly if you've not seen it already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfEfLGL59GI

Some great info here to help you out!
How to apply product to the face of your foam buffing pads

How to apply product to the face of your foam buffing pads

Below is how to apply fresh product to the face of you foam buffing pad when first starting out and your pads are dry. After you break you buffing pad in by working this initial amount of product over a section of paint, you can cut down on the amount of product you're using as the pad will be less likely to absorb as much product as it will become damp with product.





Remember don't turn the polisher on until the face of the foam pad is in contact with surface of your car's paint.

Quickly spread the product out of the surface you're going to work then slow your arm speed down and begin to use overlapping motions to work the product.

After working an application of product, wipe the leftover residue from the worked area and inspect, if the results look good move onto a new section overlapping a little into the previous section. Continue this procedure until you have finished a panel or the entire vehicle.

Remember to clean you pad on the fly and and to do this often. This insures the best experience while machine cleaning and polishing as excess product build-up on a foam buffing pad can cause gumming up.


See the below thread for related information...

Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher
Cleaning Your Pad On The Fly
How many passes to break the diminishing abrasives in M80 down?
What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...
PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! (The Limits of Dual Action Polisher)
How to tape-off a car
Please explain Pros/Cons between Rotary and Orbital Buffers
The Dual Action Counterweight 'Controversy'
Cutting Pads with the PC - Is this a good idea?
G100/PC - Should it be spinning all the time?
The words Clean and Cleaning as defined by Meguiar's terminology
Can You Use the PC to Polish-out #2000 Grit Sanding Marks?
Which products need to dry before removing?


Or if your the creative type like Joe at Superior Shine you can freestyle when placing fresh product onto the face of your foam pad.

Thanks for the links bud. Very helpful videos. I went through all of them and the Meguiar's Quick Tips video Series. Feel much more confident now
thanks again for all the good information I really appreciate it.

One other thing is to keep your pads clean. I clean mine after working every panel using a pad conditioning brush. Second link provided ^^^. As far as waxes go that depends on how long you want your wax to last. Sealants last longer and ultimate wax is the current wax leading that category. NXT 2.0/M21 is just as good. With proper maintenance you could expect somewhere in between 4-6 months with a sealant. With a carnauba like gold class or M26 you can expect around 2-3 months with proper maintenance. By proper maintenance I mean using ultimate quik wax and ultimate qiuk detailer in between washes.

You could experiment by using a sealant topped with a carnauba (ie Ultimate wax + gold class, NXT + gold class). M26 is the carnauba for the professional line and M21 is the professional version of NXT 2.0 and M21+M26 is a popular combo.

Michael Philips says it best that working with products all under the same brand translates into a synergistic system.

Michael that sounds like a good idea. I was planing to use just the Ultimate Wax but I might use the Carnauba Gold Class after the Ultimate Wax. (another trip to the store to get the Gold Class, after I thought i was ready hehehe).

Tomorrow will be the big day I might upload the before & after photos on monday or tuesday. Hopefully the After pics will look so much BETTER
and then be proud once again of my paint finish

[h_bomm]

Re: help needed!

Remember to leave at least 12 hours in between applying your second coat of wax so the first coat can cure properly. One of the videos or articles may have addressed it but I thought I would throw it out there just in case they didn't. Have fun!

[Daniel Kinder]

Re: help needed!

That's correct about letting the wax cure/dry 12 hours in between coats but alot of detailers and weekend warrior's like yourself and I can't wait that long to apply the second coat on the surface. So it's ok to just go ahead and apply the second coat/layer of your favorite LSP to your paint because 2 thin layers offer even coverage and it looks better to your eye's, but still wait about 20 minutes or so for your 1st coat of LSP to cure. (remember to do the finger swipe test to see if your LSP has cured and ready to remove) Just thought a little more info could help out.

A good read for the beginer's and even something older detailer's could freshen up on. I know I go back and re-read things alot because there is alot to remember about our OCD addiction and if even one step or technique is left out different outcomes could result.
How to tell if your wax is dry - The Swipe Test

Q: Do I let Meguiar's waxes dry completely before removal, or do you take them off right after application?
A: Let them dry fully before removal.

Q: OK, so how do I know if my wax is dry and ready to remove?
A: Do the swipe test!

Q: Uh, OK, but what the heck is the swipe test?
A: Glad you asked!


But before we answer, let's take a quick look at the waxing process itself. The two most common, and biggest, mistakes people make when waxing a car is to apply the wax too heavy, and take it off too soon. Much of that comes from using old school, heavy paste carnauba waxes. Back in the day these waxes could be a real challenge to use because if you did let them dry they could be very difficult to remove. And the thicker you applied them, the harder the removal. And, like we said, most people tend to apply wax too thick in the first place. It becomes a vicious cycle!

So you want to apply your wax in as thin a coat as possible, but also in as uniform a coat as possible. Whether you apply wax by hand or with a tool such as an orbital buffer or dual action polisher like Meguair's G110v2 makes no difference - the bottom line is you want a thin, uniform coat. No matter how thick you apply any wax, only so much of it can bond to the surface. Using too much just wastes product, lengthens the drying process, and makes removal more difficult. That's a lose-lose-lose proposition.

If you find simply waxing a car to be hard work, and your arms are dead tired when you're done, you're doing it wrong.

Applying a thin coat of wax to a well prepared surface is like spreading warm butter on a china plate. Removing that thin layer once it's dry should be almost effortless. A quick wipe with a clean, dry microfiber towel is all it takes.

So what's too thick, and what's thin enough? Look at the picture below - on the left side is a thin coat of wax, on the right is a heavy coat of the exact same wax. Too heavy. Far too heavy. Do NOT let your car look like the right side of this test panel next time you wax.




All right, now that you're putting down a properly thin coat of wax, let it dry. Yes, you can cover all the painted surfaces of a full sized car or SUV and then wait 10 to 15 minutes before doing the swipe test. If the weather is hot and dry, like Southern California in July, the wax may dry much faster than that. If it's cool and humid, like Detroit in September, it may take a bit longer to dry. Also, some waxes just dry faster than others. There are too many variables involved to give an exact time frame, so use the Swipe Test to your advantage. And here's how:

Using your index finger, and making sure it's clean and dry (that's really important!) quickly and briskly swipe it against the dried (drying?) wax to reveal the paint below. If the resulting swipe is smeared and streaky, that means the wax is not yet dry. If the resulting swipe is clear and glossy, however, then you know the wax is dry and you can begin the simple task of wiping it off. Looking at the image below you can see two swipe marks. The one on the bottom is noticeably smeared and streaked - it was done just a couple of minutes after applying the wax. The one on the top is clear and streak free - it was done about 10 minutes later. This is the look you're going for, this is the indicator that your wax is now fully dry and will wipe off easily with that clean, dry microfiber towel.



Waxing does not have to be a difficult, painful task. Apply a thin coat and use the Swipe Test to determine dryness and you'll find yourself completing the task in less time, with less effort, and getting a better result in the process.

It's a win-win-win proposition.

Michael Stoops

[Michael Stoops]

Re: help needed!

First off, let me just say that it's great to see the MOL community helping out with so much great info while I was on vacation during the Holidays - you guys are awesome!!!!

Now, as for the issue at hand.....

valferca, it appears the marring and swirls you created were caused by a combination of the product used, the pad used, and your technique. You can't really blame it all on the product; as a matter of fact, if you used the product we think you used it really shouldn't have created this on its own. TW does make a very aggressive rubbing and polishing compound in tubs that are really not suitable for use on modern clear coat finishes as they will scour the heck out of such a finish. The liquid version of their polishing compound is a much safer product for your paint and it's what we think (hope!) you used. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter all that much because you now have a bit of a problem to clean up. The good news is that you most definitely can and will clean it up using the processes and products discussed already.

You'll want to take your time, however, and not rush the process. Without hesitation we would start with Ultimate Compound on a yellow polishing pad since the swirls here are pretty severe. Work an area no larger than about 2' x 2' and wipe off the excess immediately. You should buff until the UC is just a very thin film on the surface but not completely dry. By all means do a test spot first to determine just how long you need to buff, and don't go crazy with the pressure at first!! You mentioned that you used "significant pressure" in your first attempt, and if you can avoid doing so, you should. Give this article a read to get comfortable with the DA buffer and pick up a bunch of great tips on properly correcting your paint.

[valferca]

Re: help needed!

Guys, Just wanted to give you an update. I was able to work on the car yesterday. So far It looks so MUCH better. I'm surprised with the results I was able to get with the Ultimate Compound (at least so far). There are still some swirls present but the paint got back its glossy finish once again. I used the yellow polishing pad and very light pressure which might be the reason for not been able to remove 100% of the swirls. I dont have any pictures at hand right now but will be uploading them tomorrow. I'll wait a couple of days until giving my final verdict since like I said; The finish on the paint used to improve before when I applied M7 to try to give the paint some glaze.

The work I did was:
Washed Car; of course.
Clayed car with Meguiar's clay kit
Applied Ultimate Compound with Yellow Polishing Pad (using the G110v2). (With light pressure; was kinda scare of damaging the paint since it was my first time using the machine)
Applied Ultimate Polish with Yellow Polishing Pad (with the g110v2)
Applied Ultimate Wax with the Waxing pad & the g110v2
Finally I applied the Gold Class Wax by Hand. (didnt wait the recommended 12 hours though; I was so impatient hehe)

Thanks guys for all the help. I Have learned so much from all of you!!!!

[valferca]

Re: help needed!

valferca, it appears the marring and swirls you created were caused by a combination of the product used, the pad used, and your technique. You can't really blame it all on the product; as a matter of fact, if you used the product we think you used it really shouldn't have created this on its own. TW does make a very aggressive rubbing and polishing compound in tubs that are really not suitable for use on modern clear coat finishes as they will scour the heck out of such a finish. The liquid version of their polishing compound is a much safer product for your paint and it's what we think (hope!) you used. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter all that much because you now have a bit of a problem to clean up. The good news is that you most definitely can and will clean it up using the processes and products discussed already.

Hi Michael,

The product I used was; in fact, the TW polishing compound in Tub (paste). So I guess thats bad news
Hopefully the damage is not irremediable. Just worked on the car yesterday. Im just waiting to see if I really was able to remove most defects from the paint or if it's just that the defects are hiding behind the polishing oils in the UC&UP (used to happen with the M7).
So do you think this product is that aggressive that could had damaged my clear coat???
Here is another pic I took before working on the car:




I was able to COMPLETELY remove that defect from the bumper btw


The After pics are coming tomorrow. I didnt used my phone thats why I dont have them with me right now.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: help needed!

The product I used was; in fact, the TW polishing compound in Tub (paste). So I guess thats bad news
Hopefully the damage is not irremediable. Just worked on the car yesterday. Im just waiting to see if I really was able to remove most defects from the paint or if it's just that the defects are hiding behind the polishing oils in the UC&UP (used to happen with the M7).
So do you think this product is that aggressive that could had damaged my clear coat???
Here is another pic I took before working on the car:




I was able to COMPLETELY remove that defect from the bumper btw


The After pics are coming tomorrow. I didnt used my phone thats why I dont have them with me right now.

Glad to see you making some really good progress. I'll let you in on a little secret (but shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone!!! ): when doing demos at an event, we often use that product to inflict damage to the paint so that we can demonstrate how to properly use a DA buffer to correct paint defects. We can't do a demo on perfect paint because it doesn't really prove anything, so we intentionally inflict some paint defects, and this is an easy way to do it. Now, this is most definitely NOT an indictment of this particular product. It's a perfecty good product, but it's just not suitable for use on a modern clear coat paint system. In all honesty, Meguiar's has products that also should not be used on a modern clear coat with a DA buffer because they will very likely scour the paint, too. Again, that doesn't make them bad products, just the wrong product for the job.

So, did you "damage" your clear coat using that product? Well, in a way, yes. But not any more than you "damage" the clear coat by running the car through an automatic car wash that has nylon brushes slamming against the paint. Or washing in your own driveway using an old beach towel. You have indeed inflicted some "damage" to the clear, but as you're finding out, that damage is actually pretty darn light (even though visually it looks truly horrible). You have done no irreparable harm, so it's all good.

Truth be told, you can do extreme damage to your clear coat using almost any product, if you use it wrong. We've seen people rub right through their clear coat when working by hand with very mild products, but they managed that by rubbing with a lot of pressure in a very small area for a very long time. Technique is every bit as important as the product used. Now, we know you mentioned having used a lot of pressure on your orbital buffer with that other product, and on a very powerful tool that would have been a very, very bad idea. But that tool is of such low power that it couldn't translate that pressure into any rotational force that would have done serious damage. Consider that a bullet dodged! It's always better to approach paint correction slowly and with as a non invasive approach as possible to start. You can always go back and work an area a second or third time to fully remove a defect, but you can't go back and add more clear to an area that you rubbed through if you just dive in and hit it as hard as you can in an effort to speed up the process.

[valferca]

Re: help needed!

Glad to see you making some really good progress. I'll let you in on a little secret (but shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone!!! ): when doing demos at an event, we often use that product to inflict damage to the paint so that we can demonstrate how to properly use a DA buffer to correct paint defects. We can't do a demo on perfect paint because it doesn't really prove anything, so we intentionally inflict some paint defects, and this is an easy way to do it. Now, this is most definitely NOT an indictment of this particular product. It's a perfecty good product, but it's just not suitable for use on a modern clear coat paint system. In all honesty, Meguiar's has products that also should not be used on a modern clear coat with a DA buffer because they will very likely scour the paint, too. Again, that doesn't make them bad products, just the wrong product for the job.

Truth be told, you can do extreme damage to your clear coat using almost any product, if you use it wrong. We've seen people rub right through their clear coat when working by hand with very mild products, but they managed that by rubbing with a lot of pressure in a very small area for a very long time. Technique is every bit as important as the product used. Now, we know you mentioned having used a lot of pressure on your orbital buffer with that other product, and on a very powerful tool that would have been a very, very bad idea. But that tool is of such low power that it couldn't translate that pressure into any rotational force that would have done serious damage. Consider that a bullet dodged! It's always better to approach paint correction slowly and with as a non invasive approach as possible to start. You can always go back and work an area a second or third time to fully remove a defect, but you can't go back and add more clear to an area that you rubbed through if you just dive in and hit it as hard as you can in an effort to speed up the process.

You are absolutely right about that Michael. I consider myself lucky for not having any tools other than the orbital at that time. Had no idea there were products not suitable for clear coat paints still on the market. Thought anything I could grab was safe for my paint. Now, thanks to you and all the people in this forum I know how to properly treat/keep the paint on my car

So, did you "damage" your clear coat using that product? Well, in a way, yes. But not any more than you "damage" the clear coat by running the car through an automatic car wash that has nylon brushes slamming against the paint. Or washing in your own driveway using an old beach towel. You have indeed inflicted some "damage" to the clear, but as you're finding out, that damage is actually pretty darn light (even though visually it looks truly horrible). You have done no irreparable harm, so it's all good.

Thankfully, I was able to remove I would say 90% of the defects. Which is really impressive since this was my first real detailing job and like I said, was very easy on the pressure and didnt use the most aggressive pad in the g110.

Here are some after photos like I had promised guys:
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As you can see the paint is looking so much better
Thanks guys for all the help and support. Without your help I wouldn't had an idea on how to fix all the mess I had done.
I have learned so much from this forum and hope one day I can become as expert as you guys in this area; and be able to help and advice others.
I want to thank Michael and all the Meguiars team for producing such high quality products. I'm impressed with the level of correction I was able to get being a beginner in the detailing world.
Have all a great start of the week!

[Daniel Kinder]

Re: help needed!

Nice work and your working on Black Paint!

Get you a test hood if you haven't already? and practice on it, and valferca buddy I think you will be a great polisher and a great MOL member!