Professionally Marred Car :(

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Nope, I do not. No many places where I live that have pavement and a power source, short of using a 1000 foot extension cord.
I was very careful however, I just got really muddy shoes and pants. Ha.
I even used the 3 bucket method to wash my car. That was fun!
I think I will invest in some ONR for the future.
Now to clean and dry all those dirty microfibers.

[s word]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Phenomenal turn around and the conditions you did it in make it even more dedicated. Look at those reflections. Great job. No swirls left?

[kiwiatlarge]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Nothing looks worse than a red car which has bad swirling, or worse bad fading, or worse again clear coat failure..... Nothing looks better than a red car which is cleaned up...

That colour looks fantastic.....

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Phenomenal turn around and the conditions you did it in make it even more dedicated. Look at those reflections. Great job. No swirls left?

There are still swirls, light ones as you will see in the pictures I just posted, but I mean....come on, the results are more then worth the effort.
Had I used a more abrasive combo, either the compound or the pad, I am sure I could have gotten them all out. Perhaps I did not spend enough time on the paint with my combo, I guess I won't know, but overall I am satisfied with my results.

__________________
Photos:
Here is the hood. Drivers side, up near the windshield. Same area as my before picture.
As you can see, they are still there, but it is a HUGE improvement over what it was before.
BEFORE


AFTER


Reflectivity shot, check out that clarity! (Pay no mind to the dirt, I live on a dirt road)
It is a little out of focus, but the idea is there

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

You've definitely made huge progress here, but we know you can take it even further with just a bit of technique adjustment. Looking at your comments below we've got a few pointers for you:

I took the yellow pad and the UC and went over the entire car on speed 5. I didn't use any prep stuff, I just rubbed some UC on the pad to moisten it up. I placed about 3 dime size amounts for each panel. I did the hood in 2 parts, the roof in 2 parts, then each quarter panel and each door as a separate panel. I did 3 passes each way, up and down, then side to side.
I was not able to remove every single scratch and swirl mark, but it got almost all of them out.

First off, and this is critical, shrink that work area down. A lot. Yes, this is a small car but doing the hood in just two sections is still a very large work area - we would have done it in 4 sections, minimum. Those doors are quite long and doing each as a single work area is really stretching things. Again, these should be split into two or even three sections, as should the other panels.

Using speed 5 and a minimal amount of product was a good move, but you didn't mention how fast or slow you were moving the buffer across the paint (arm speed) or how much pressure you were using. We recommend slow arm speed as it's very common for new users to try and keep up with the sound of the machine and start moving too quickly. Pressure should be moderate to almost heavy, depending on how the paint is responding, how severe the defects are, etc. Too much pressure with stop the pad from rotating, and for new users it's often helpful to place a small piece of masking tape on the back of the backing plate to help you visualize the rotation. It doesn't have to be moving quickly, but it should be definitely rotating. Keeping the pad as flat as possible will help greatly here, and on curved panels (which the Eclipse has plenty) keep the center line of the pad flat to the paint rather than cantilever it. The image below shows incorrect technique for working on a curved panel, while the little animation below it shows proper technique.


Running the pad as shown above will result in a loss of rotation, but if you imagine a line passing from one side of the pad to the other and directly through the center point, and then keep that line in contact with the paint, you get a motion similar to what's shown below. This way the pad will continue to rotate even with fairly heavy pressure.



Continue to use the same amount of product you described even when shrinking your work area. The slow movements are critical, too, as moving too quickly doesn't give the product and pad enough time to properly interact with the paint. It can feel like you're working faster when doing larger areas and moving more quickly, but in reality it just diminishes results and forces you to do everything twice.


There is obviously a huge difference in the level of defects shown in these two images:




There are still some obvious swirls visible, and that's fine - we don't expect anyone to just pick up a buffer and suddenly do work on par with the best elite detailers in the country. In our Saturday Classes it is incredibly common to see new users tilting the pad, moving too quickly, not using enough pressure, etc. Each variable can diminish results on it's own, but start combining these common errors and you start compromising your work pretty dramatically. You're definitely on the right track and moving along it pretty quickly! Make some adjustments in your technique as described above, take your time, pay close attention to the pad spin, and you'll take out the last of those swirls in no time.

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

I used enough pressure to stop the pad, then backed off until I saw it spinning. So I would say it was fairly heavy pressure. My arm speed was very slow, not really creeping along, but I was slow enough to be able to make sure the pad was spinning and to be able to keep the pad as flat as possible-which tended to be difficult on speed 5 as the rotation was quite strong until you got used to it. I tried to use the side grip and hold it on top, but often times found myself leveling it out using the end of the Porter Cable where the power cord was for leverage.
As for re-doing my efforts, I will more then likely redo them sometime this summer, in a month or two. For right now, the shine is fantastic, and it was a lot of work, so I think I will admire it.
I have a trip to CT in late July, I will most likely go over it again.
By then I think the 50/50 wax will have worn down enough to start wearing away at the JetSeal 109.
I assume I would have to use an IPA wipedown to remove the JetSeal? (Which variation should I go with?)
I appreciate the tips, I actually did do the second image and not the first one. I saw it in one of the many videos Meguiars and Chemical Guys placed on YouTube.
The only aspect that gave me a hard time, was the door, I was all over the place, upside down, sideways with the machine.
As for what I would do differently, I think I would actually have used a black finishing pad for the Ez-Glaze, just because I was not able to work it enough to really get it into those remaining swirls. I am not sure if I would have applied JetSeal by machine or not, it seemed to go on, and buff off fairly easily.
Do you think the W8006 pad would be sufficient enough to curb out those extra swirl marks left behind?
As for the wax, due to its consistency, I would still need to apply it by hand, which is fine. It is a really nice wax. It gives the car a warm glow, not a wet look which I do not mind. Some people would be turned off by this, but I was not.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Given the progress you've made with your first go, we would think the W8006 pad would be sufficient here. If the first go round, working such large areas, got you this far along then a second buffing session working smaller areas should finish it off. Your description of pressure and arm speed sounds perfect, but your work area size is still holding you back. You really need to get all the variables in line to obtain maximum result, and now it sounds like you're missing just that one by spreading your work over such a large area.

We don't blame you for wanting to take some time and just enjoy the car - the body shop returned a mess to you and you turned around and, with no prior experience, took the back to a level that the vast majority of people would be beyond thrilled with. Major kudos to you for making such great progress your first time out!!

As for an IPA wipedown of the JetSeal next time you compound - probably not necessary but it depends on how long from now that is. If you planned on compounding as early as next week then we'd say definitely do the IPA but if you end up doing it 4 or 5 months from now there likely won't be much of it left anyway.

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Well, I have bad news.
I just used some waterless wash called ECOwash, and it worked well enough for a light bath. Dirtied about 6 of my microfibers, but was fun.

Problem was this: I noticed holograms. Lots of them all over the car, only at certain angles. I am wondering why I have not noticed them before, as I took it over with a halogen light the day after and there were none.
I any case, I have brand new pads. I managed to score a "sample" pack of the Chemical Guys HexLogic pads in side 5.5 inches.
I am wondering if the reason for those is because of the yellow pad, or the UC?
I will try to get a photo up in a few minutes. I seemed to have misplaced my cameras lens -_-

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Here are some photos of what I mean.
Is it possible these were caused by the shop when they attempted to remove the swirls with a buffer?
Could it have been the glaze perhaps?
I have not tried using any Quick Detailer on the paint, as Wal-Mart was out of the Ultimate Qucik Detailer. (I noticed it has Iso- Alcohol as an ingredient....I find that odd, since it has stripping properties)

The speed I used was 5 for the whole car. I cleaned the pad with dish soap after each panel (hood, fender, bumper, etc etc) and rang out using the spin method.
I mean, I could be wrong about them being holograms, but they look very close....

[davey g-force]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

It looks like swirls / holograms that you didn't remove in the first place.

These things can be deceiving, only appearing in the right light / conditions. I can't remember, but you used a glaze didn't you? If so, I'd say the glaze was hiding the defects, until it was washed away by your next wash.

I think you'll have to give correction another go, this time shrinking your work areas down.

I cleaned the pad with dish soap after each panel (hood, fender, bumper, etc etc) and rang out using the spin method.

What was the idea behind the dish soap? And what did you wring out?

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Oh, the dish soap was all I had left that could remove the compounds completely. I wrung the pad out on the DA, to get rid of the water.
I now have an citrus based pad cleaner for that purpose so, I should be all set.
It came in a 16 oz bottle and says to use 1oz per 16 ounces of water, so I think it is super concentrated.
In any-case, I have better pads now, and different kinds, so I think I can try a different combo.
I also purchased some new compounds. I got some Chemical Guys Scratch B-Gone for $5, and some CG Slick Detailer for $6 from a local guy and he tossed in some P40 polish as well. It has about half a bottle left of each, so I should have more then enough. He saw my car, and cut me a deal I think. In no sun, the car looks absolutely fantastic, I mean it is gorgeous, but man, you put the sun to it, and you can see all kinds of stuff.
I figure it this way, my hood will need to be broken up into 6 sections based on size, my doors in 3 since it is a coupe. My trunk will be 2 sections, and my bumper will have to be 3. My front bumper, I am not sure, I think 2 should be enough since there is not a lot of area, it is just oddly placed. My front quarter panels will be section area given the total size.
Or should I go even smaller then that?
I plan to tackle this is a few weeks, since it is basically going to rain non-stop for next few weeks.

Thanks for the help!

[davey g-force]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Oh, the dish soap was all I had left that could remove the compounds completely. I wrung the pad out on the DA, to get rid of the water.
I now have an citrus based pad cleaner for that purpose so, I should be all set.
It came in a 16 oz bottle and says to use 1oz per 16 ounces of water, so I think it is super concentrated.

I get you now. But where did you get the idea to clean your pad with dish soap (or anything) after each panel? That is not required and probably would have affected your results.

Do a search for "Cleaning your pad on the fly". All you need to do is use a pad brush (or similar) and/or a terry towel after each few sections.

The washing with dish soap (or even your new pad cleaner) is for after you've finished polishing the whole car and you want to put the pads away for next time.

The size of your proposed work sections above seem about right. Just do a test spot first, especially if you're experimenting with new products.

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

It was recommended to my on another forum I frequent. Maybe I misunderstood him/her, I thought I needed to clean the pad after each panel....
Was the tooth brush fine? (I used it to wipe off the surface gunk) Or should I get a pad brush?
I could always use the blot method on a towel too.

It will be interesting to see how the Scratch B-Gone behaves since it is supposed act similar to the DAT that is in the professional line of Meguiar's products, while the P-40 polish is similar to the SMAT products.

I should be able to get it done in the next few weeks. Worse come to worse, I can do one panel at a time, as weather permits.

[davey g-force]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Oh ok. I think there must have been a misunderstanding. No need to wash your pad out during a detail, only at the end. Again, look up "Cleaning your pad on the fly" for what to do during a detail.

A toothbrush is probably ok if used in conjunction with a terry towel. But a pad brush is quite cheap so it's probably worth getting one of those.

[PerfectCreature]

Re: Professionally Marred Car

Thanks, it looks as if next Monday is supposed to be sunny and 69 degrees. So I will aim for Monday to try out my new products.