how important is polish for hydration?

[wOlfy]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?



lol in milatary you polish your boots & only wax them for events....though most use different set some the lower enlisties will use there same ol pair.

was analogy u kno like a D/A mimic's the earths rotation but it dosen't really roatae around the sun like the earth :P

How many times have we heard a wax being called a polish and a polish being called a wax??????

Also does boot polish remove a micron of the boots surface, or is it a case that it's providing protection???? So are you infact waxing/sealing your boots???

[prbrianpr]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

"light distillate" or "hydrotreated distillate" are ingredients of some popular POLISHES as indicated by their MSDS. I wondered if they were the OIL you refer to in this sentence:



Therefore if those were oils in a polish, then it follows those polishes should not be used under a synthetic wax, such as M21.

Bonding I may not get, bondage I understand thanks!!

If you have a oily ham between two bread slices the slices of bread willnot bond together. So, syntethic that bounds paint not use glaze, for hard shell nuba, you can use glaze.

[Blazebro]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

lol in milatary you polish your boots & only wax them for events....though most use different set some the lower enlisties will use there same ol pair.

was analogy u kno like a D/A mimic's the earths rotation but it dosen't really roatae around the sun like the earth :P

In the military you bull your boots

(so you don't polish or wax them to add a further dimension)

[David Fermani]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

polish brings out the paints beauty. it will defenitly help your paint

But will it help make is last longer? I still don't believe in the whole feeding/nourishing thing for paint? Way too many cars out there that have zero protection lasting for several decades.

[TOGWT]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

Nitrocellulose Lacquer

This paint had rapid drying and low viscosity properties, applied with a spray gun leaving a hard dry finish. Its resin binder system require oils to stop them from drying out (this is the reason the myth of ‘feeding’ paint was propagated) When polished, and waxed, it far surpassed in durability and appearance the qualities of the Japanese lacquers.

Water-based

Utilizing modern paint technology using water-based high solid/low solvent urethane that for environmental reasons (low volatile organic compounds (VOC) produce a much softer and more porous finish; its molecules are not tightly linked together as t has a chain-link type structure, which makes it more porous than acrylic or oil based high solvent content paint systems. For this reason you should be cautious as to what chemicals are allowed to come into contact with the paint surface Modern low VOC solvent-based or water-based paints do not require oils, other than as a surface lubrication for paint polishes / compounds

[David Fermani]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

What publication are you getting this from Jon? Like I said, 10's of 1000's of single stage cars are still around without anyone feeding them with oil.

[TOGWT]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

Nitrocellulose Lacquer is used mainly on classic cars, modern single stage paint is either solvent or water-based paint

[David Fermani]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

Nitrocellulose Lacquer is used mainly on classic cars, modern single stage paint is either solvent or water-based paint

And your point is???? Nitrocellulose Lacquer is also used on Guitars and violins too. And can also be water-borne.

I like to think of the new Water technology as Water-Borne, not Water-Base as their are still solvents in the base. Plus, it's pretty much what most of the people in the paint industry refer to it as.

Again, what publication are you getting your info from?

[Flash Gordon]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

Popcorn

[prbrianpr]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

I think that is better the trial and error of products more than go to quemical discusion and filosofy, I say that because you cant have a result only using the mind, for concrete results you need to experiment. Ok, you can say new cars not need glaze but I try it and works for me, then I will continue using it no matter if quemically it not help at all, Company glazes not have only oils in it, it have other variables that affects the result, Still Meguiars and other companies says that usign a glaze is mainly for shine no for protection. If you see the combos they dont mix glaze with synthetic waxes, only glaze with silicone, resin and carnauba waxes.

Use the logic, maybe the 50% or more of drivers dont wax they cars, the paint last a long time, years without problems, the genetic (quemical structure) of the paint is more important when we go for durability. The paint of some cars are munch better than other cars, some car paints are very cheap, other expensive. If you have a car with cheap paint then using waxes helps. People go for shine and easy of wash, protection really dont make it when you have a car that can go 15-20 years without a respray. I think that washing weekly is more important that expensive waxes. For me, Polishing, cleaner and wax for nice good paint, Glaze is for shine only. After all we are talking of layers more thin that a hair. A good polishing with a machine does more shine than the $8,000 wax.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

I would think that the micro fissures being filled in with oil would have a protective effect- I'm thinking along the lines of water not being able to enter the micro fissures to further corrode the paint and cause them to get larger. I hope someone from meguiars chimes in on this. For what I've been using Meguiars polishes on all my families cars since 1996 and for ever day drivers it has always made the paint look like brand new forever. One of my cars now is a 12 year old every day driver and the paint still has a like new luster from years of meguiars polishes

^ That's why we have glazes.

glaze = pure polish

If you have a oily ham between two bread slices the slices of bread willnot bond together. So, syntethic that bounds paint not use glaze, for hard shell nuba, you can use glaze.

the bonding of a cross linking synthetic sealant is totally and completely different than two slices of bread "sticking together".


When debating whether or not a modern paint system is truly hard and dry and receives no benefit from a pure polish, consider this:

M105 was designed for use on fresh paint that is pretty "tight" on the surface, meaning it's not terribly porous. It can work well on older paint, but if that paint is terribly dried out it will quickly pull the oils out of M105, causing the product to gum up on the surface pretty quickly. I've personally experienced this on a neglected Ferrari with base/clear paint and M105 was completely unusable on the car. M80 Speed Glaze, on the other hand, rich in polishing oils, was a dream on the car and it made it look almost as though it had been repainted - the red was once again red; deep, rich, glossy and highly reflective. If the increase in oil content of M80 over M105 made such a huge difference on paint that could only be described as "dried out", then what other mechanism was at play there if not oils going into the porous surface of the paint?

[prbrianpr]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

You say that M 80 dries more slow that M 105? Because M 105 dries to me in 40 seconds max. I know about that glaze not is equal to ham slice but you need to consider, in a porous surface the glaze oils will go to the pores so there is still a surface to adhere the synthetic wax, but If you have a new paint with really few pores the glaze oils will simply stuck on the surface so Synthetic wax will found more difficult to adhere, Anyway in both cases I think that the synthetic wax will adhere to the surface, maybe more hard in some paints than others, But really for wax longevity I think that glaze not is a good idea. This not have nothing to do with paint rejuvenation or "Hydration" a wax that dont contains oils will not rejuvenate the paint In fact, a polish (compounding, cleaning, glaze) will rejuvenate the paint and hydrate it, the wax synthetic or not is only a protective layer mainly for water spots, acid rain, sun rays, etc... I use the glaze, I really like the glaze makes the paint more glossy, more than any wax I used. Shure my car paint is 13 years old and some parts are single stage I can see the difference. In my mom car of months old I really cant note a difference waxed or not, After washing its very shiny, It have a smooth new clear coat, I can use a glaze on it only to see if I see a difference ( I doubt) still wax the car is a good thing, water beads, easy to wash (dirt not stick in the paint), very smooth paint feels nice, shine last more after wash because the dirt not stick like a unwaxed car.

[Blazebro]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

glaze = pure polish

Not if you work for Zymol it dosen't.

In my experience products which are marketed as 'Glazes' have no polishing (cutting) power, but is an additional stage to add extra gloss. They don't give any real protection, but may contain fillers. IMO glazes are products like Poorboys Black Hole, Chemical Guy's Glossworkz Glaze and Auto Glym Super Resin Polish.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

Not if you work for Zymol it dosen't.

In my experience products which are marketed as 'Glazes' have no polishing (cutting) power, but is an additional stage to add extra gloss. They don't give any real protection, but may contain fillers. IMO glazes are products like Poorboys Black Hole, Chemical Guy's Glossworkz Glaze and Auto Glym Super Resin Polish.

Last I checked, I work for Meguiar's and this is Meguiar's forum, so I stand by the comment that glaze = pure polish.

And that word "pure" is the key. In our lineup products like Deep Crystal Polish and M07 Show Car Glaze are "pure polishes", meaning they have no cutting power whatsoever. M80 Speed Glaze, on the other hand, is what we call a "cleaner polish" because it contains both cleaning (cutting) ability and polish (or glaze). We consider the application of a "pure polish" to be an optional step. Further, a pure polish, just as you stated, is an additional stage to add extra gloss but they offer no protection. By simple virtue of the fact that they tend to be fairly heavy or oily products and you are leaving some behind on the surface, they do have a tendency to hide, mask or indeed fill fine defects. That may not be their true design intent - we recommend removing all defects prior to application of a pure polish - but it is a side effect, if you will, of their make up.

Really what it comes down to is a matter of semantics - there are no hard and fast rules as to what to call each stage of the detailing process. Interestingly enough, you mention "Auto Glym Super Resin Polish" as being a glaze rather than a product with any cutting ability. It gets even trickier when Zaino calls their Z-2 Pro "Show Car Polish" when most people would actually classify it as a synthetic sealant. We regularly hear wax referred to as polish, polish as abrasive, etc. But Meguiar's has been using these terms the way we described above since 1901, and we've been consistent in doing so.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: how important is polish for hydration?

You say that M 80 dries more slow that M 105? Because M 105 dries to me in 40 seconds max.

M80 has a lot more polishing oil in it than M105, but it doesn't have anywhere near as much cut as M105. And don't forget, M105 was specifically designed for use on fresh paint with a rotary buffer. If you're detailing an older car with it, and your 13 year old car certainly fits that description, there is a very good chance that the paint has dried out to the point where M105 may not be the best choice.

With the Ferrari I mentioned, my test spot with M105 immediately told me that this was the wrong product. 40 seconds would have been a huge improvement in work time on this car - it gummed up almost instantly. As it turned out, not only did the extra oils in M80 make the job easier, the paint was so easy to work that it didn't need anything more aggressive than M80 - M105 would have been overkill.

in a porous surface the glaze oils will go to the pores so there is still a surface to adhere the synthetic wax, but If you have a new paint with really few pores the glaze oils will simply stuck on the surface so Synthetic wax will found more difficult to adhere, Anyway in both cases I think that the synthetic wax will adhere to the surface, maybe more hard in some paints than others, But really for wax longevity I think that glaze not is a good idea. This not have nothing to do with paint rejuvenation or "Hydration" a wax that dont contains oils will not rejuvenate the paint In fact, a polish (compounding, cleaning, glaze) will rejuvenate the paint and hydrate it, the wax synthetic or not is only a protective layer mainly for water spots, acid rain, sun rays, etc... I use the glaze, I really like the glaze makes the paint more glossy, more than any wax I used. Shure my car paint is 13 years old and some parts are single stage I can see the difference. In my mom car of months old I really cant note a difference waxed or not, After washing its very shiny, It have a smooth new clear coat, I can use a glaze on it only to see if I see a difference ( I doubt) still wax the car is a good thing, water beads, easy to wash (dirt not stick in the paint), very smooth paint feels nice, shine last more after wash because the dirt not stick like a unwaxed car.

We agree with a lot of this - polishing oils on older, more "open" paint will fill in the gaps and pores and help give a synthetic product a flatter area to grab onto, in essence. Some companies will recommend that you remove all traces of these oils before applying their synthetic sealants, but if you're using a Meguiar's synthetic (M21, NXT, Ultimate Wax) and a Meguiar's pure polish (Deep Crystal, M07) then there's no need to strip the polish off first. Heck, NXT is even a polish/wax, meaning it has polish in it!

We also agree with your assessment of a glaze (ie, "pure" polish) adding more gloss than any wax - that is what they are designed for; gloss enhancement.