New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

[the_invisible]

Last week I had the hood on my car repainted. Yesterday I started wetsanding the hood with 2500 grit sandpaper. I used M105 and an orange LC pad to remove most of the sanding marks. Because the paint is so hard, I had to give the hood about 6 to 7 passes to completely make it satisfactory.

Because I used non-unigrit sandpaper, I left some RIDS on the hood. On OEM paint, these RIDS would normally buff away using Ultimate Compound or ScratchX 2.0. However, because the new Sikkens paint is so hard, I had wetsand the RIDS with a 1"x1" piece of 2500 grit sandpaper to correct the RIDS caused by wetsanding. Ironic, I know. Some RIDS were removed via wetsanding, some were simply reduced to a visually acceptable level. What's worse is that after I wetsand the sanding marks, I had to give the area three or more passes of M105 to eliminate those sanding marks.

I performed wetsanding for as much RIDS as I could find, but after I put everything away and called it a day, I find even MORE RIDS that needed the wetsanding treatment. I am sick and tired of wetsanding out these light RIDS.

I employed this method and tried to use my hand to remove some of these RIDS by hand via M105, but the paint is simply too deep for some RIDS.


What should I do? Also, I think I am seeing some marring as a result of using M105. Since M105 is barely having any effect on the hard paint, what kind of polish should I use to remove those marring caused by M105? This is really frustrating... the tough paint is really taking a toll on me physically.

This is what I have to do to remove any RIDS on this durable paint job:


Notice the various wetsanding marks... these are simply for RIDS correction.


You can also see the nice gloss, reflection, and depth of having the hood wetsanded. That is BEFORE POLISH or LSP. With some polish and LSP, the hood would glow.


One possible solution is to resand a majority of the hood using unigrit 3000 grit sandpaper, as to remove as much RIDS as possible. But I want to avoid doing that if there is a solution to dealing with some RIDS. I removed as much RIDS as I could there's around maybe 5-7 spots left. Some are simply unnoticeable. Or maybe I could muster some energy tonight and proceed to removing as much RIDS using my current 3M 2500 grit sandpaper.

[Eddie6th]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Hi Invisible.I remember your thread a week or so ago about your new paint job etc. Why has it been necessary to do wetsanding? I'm just a bit lost here. Did you get some Rids since the paint job?

[the_invisible]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Hi Eddie,

Basically, the paint job was in dire need of a wetsanding because of orange peel issue. The orange peel was affecting gloss and depth. According to my new friend Shyneman the dullness of the paint job was a result of solvent trapped inside the clear coat, unable to evaporate. Also, the solvent trapped inside the clear coat is causing tiny burst holes on the clear coat, causing even more dullness. Shyneman recommended me to wetsand the hood to restore gloss and depth to the paint.

After wetsanding the hood, I realized that it was compulsory and I did not regret doing it. The result was awesome. Gloss and depth are BOTH better than OEM. I can even smell paint solvent coming from the hood, whcich is a clear indication that there is indeed solvent trapped inside the clear coat.


I left some RIDS on the hood because I wetsanded the hood with non-unigrit sandpaper. Because the paint is so durable, the RIDS require wetsanding to remove. Those RIDS are not even that deep. They are only as deep as the thickness of a piece of hair. Simple M105 application by hand is unable to remove those RIDS. I have already soaked some 2500 grit in some hand soap water to further soften up the paper. I will attack those RIDS today to completely remove whatever RIDS is left. If there are any more RIDS left, I will ignore them for now.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Because I used non-unigrit sandpaper, I left some RIDS on the hood.

Not that it's a big deal but RIDS or Random Isolated Deeper Defects are usually caused by normal wear and tear and things like improper washing etc. These types of scratches run in all different directions.

When you wet-sand and leave deeper sanding marks behind they usually run in the same direction, (the direction you were sanding), and these are called Tracers.

See this article in Hot Topics

Tracers, RIDS & Pigtails

[RGP]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Not a solution, but merely a suggestion based upon my own personality and prior experience in such situations.

Personally, I'd remind myself that the problem will eventually be totally corrected at some point. I often grasp at straws going for a quick solution to a problem and more often than not, I end up exacerbating the situation.

I'd make a leisurely trip to your supplier tonight for whatever things you may want to try. Clear your head, try to relax and compose yourself, and leave any further paint correction attempts go 'til the morning when your arms and mind are more refreshed before you chance doing anything which you may later regret.

The totally worst of all scenarios is that the hood may have to be redone. So what. It's a hood, not brain cancer.

Do as I say, not as I would do!

[the_invisible]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Hi Mike Phillips, nice to see you posting on here again!!! Yes, you are absolutely correct, these are tracers I am having, not RIDS. I am not too familiar with these terms. But you are right, I am having problems with tracers, not RIDS.

Based on my assessment, these tracers are very shallow. I will exercise judgement when removing them using wetsanding.

What is the best way to avoid tracers? I already did my best at wetsanding and used 2500 grit paper to minimize damage. Will using unigrit sandpaper completely avoid tracers? I have decided to wetsand my 335i and this time I want to do it right with the highest quality paper, and soak them for three days in the softest hand soap available to mankind. Will that help?

Also, on my black daily driver, I have one small line of pig tails on the hood when I got it repainted for cheap. The paint job was great, but there was a small spot with a little pig tail. Is that removeable by wetsanding?


RGP, yes each time I tackle a problem I do it after a good night's sleep...

[Eddie6th]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

The highest grit I could find here was 2500.I'm not sure if it is even unigrit.It doesn't say.It does have latex backing though.If you can get unigrit good quality papers,that's better.

I had a look at the paint Mfr's site.This must be quite a tough paint.How have you got on since?

[the_invisible]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I think most latex backed sandpaper are unigrit. Because latex backed sandpapers are ALWAYS used for wetsanding, and wetsanding is always performed on the most delicate surfaces, such sandpaper is likely to have grit that is as uniform as possible. If you could find a latex backed sandpaper, get it. It is probably unigrit. Even if it isn't, it should be close enough given its latex backing.

The 3M Imperial Wetordry sandpaper is probably as close to unigrit as any mainstream sandpaper could get. It is not unigrit, but the variance of grit level is probably relatively small. Almost all bodyshops utilize the 3M Imperial Wetordry sandpaper, so its grit must be consistent.

Keep in mind that the term Unigrit is adopted by Meguiar's for marketing purposes. There are alot of "unigrit" sandpaper on the market that do not utilize such term. The Meguiar's unigrit sandpaper is actually produced by a sandpaper company in Japan, rebadged and repackaged for sale by Meguiar's.

Without a doubt, Sikkens is probably one of the most reputable auto-paint makers in Europe, if not in the world. You know a paint is hard when you see a VERY VERY Fine scratch that couldn't be removed by M105. We can all appreciate hard paint. Hard paint coating probably resist well against swirling, but when it comes to correction, it can be a nightmare.

Today I started removing as much tracers as I could see with my naked eyes. Basically I held a magnifying glass and inspect every single inch of the hood for tracers. Whenever I see a tracer, I put a small piece of masking tape near the tracer mark so I could go back later and wetsand the area. It took me hours just to inspect the entire hood for tracers.

What I did to remove the tracers was by wetsanding the tracers in a perpendicular direction. The sandpaper I used to remove the tracers was the same piece of sandpaper that created the tracers. I cut the 2500 grit 3M sandpaper into six 1" x1" pieces, and then soaked the small pieces of sandpaper into a cup of distilled water with aloe hand soap for 24 hours. For lubrication, I used distilled water mixed with some Deep Crystal Shampoo. I ensured I am removing as little clear coat as possible because all the tracers were extremely fine. To avoid creating even more tracers, I sanded using very short strokes and sanded against the tracers in perpendicular direction. I succeeded in avoiding creating more tracers when removing tracers.

Here is a picture of what I did today to remove the tracers (there were actually more than in this picture):



So far, I believe I have removed about 95% of the tracers. Some are simply too fine to be detected. I removed as much as I possibly could.

I gave the wetsanded marks a number of passes using M105. The hood turns out pretty good now. The hood is now ready for polish.

With the paint so hard, what would be the best polish to use on the hood?

[Ryan L.]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I'm still worried that your wet sanding a hood that was repainted last week. I guess if they said you could go ahead but I can't imagine it's ready for that type of work.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Ryan

[Markus Kleis]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I think most latex backed sandpaper are unigrit. Because latex backed sandpapers are ALWAYS used for wetsanding, and wetsanding is always performed on the most delicate surfaces, such sandpaper is likely to have grit that is as uniform as possible.

Actually, Unigrit is the specific branded name that Meguiar's uses for its wet sanding paper. This isn't a generic term referring to a style of paper- but the brand name.

Just like 3M uses Trizact to name their sandpaper.

But back on point, I have very limited experience with brands other than Meguiar's Unigrit, but I did get the nicest stuff Home Depot had to offer for a project in the past and it didn't last 1/4th the time the Unigrit did. Also, the Unigrit is named that for a reason- it is manufactured with an extremely rigid level of uniformity between the bits and pieces...which help to reduce the presence of tracers.

Have you tried contacting online or local Meguiar's vendors to see if they can get you legitimate Unigrit paper? Unigrit comes in grits up to 3,000 which is VERY, very fine.

[the_invisible]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I'm still worried that your wet sanding a hood that was repainted last week. I guess if they said you could go ahead but I can't imagine it's ready for that type of work.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

I was worried about that as well. However, I noticed for years that most bodyshops wetsand repainted surfaces immediately after baking without any problem. A guy by the name of rope with a dog in his avatar said that he wetsand at his bodyshop as well.

Also, according to Shyneman123, an experienced bodyman on MOL, wetsanding is crucial to allow solvent to evaporate. Shyneman123 was right on when he recognized that the dullness on my hood was caused by solvent unable to escape, thereby bursting microscopic holes through the clear.

At this point, I am not seeing any negative effect from wetsanding.

Actually, Unigrit is the specific branded name that Meguiar's uses for its wet sanding paper. This isn't a generic term referring to a style of paper- but the brand name.

Just like 3M uses Trizact to name their sandpaper.

But back on point, I have very limited experience with brands other than Meguiar's Unigrit, but I did get the nicest stuff Home Depot had to offer for a project in the past and it didn't last 1/4th the time the Unigrit did. Also, the Unigrit is named that for a reason- it is manufactured with an extremely rigid level of uniformity between the bits and pieces...which help to reduce the presence of tracers.

Have you tried contacting online or local Meguiar's vendors to see if they can get you legitimate Unigrit paper? Unigrit comes in grits up to 3,000 which is VERY, very fine.

Hi Mark,

As I have already implied, I am using the term unigrit to generalize sandpaper with grit with good uniformality.

I would actually like to get my hands on some Trizact sandpaper, but I believe that is a line of 3M sandpapers only available in America. What we have here is the 3M Imperial wetordry line of products, designed for bodyshops. Trizact is probably tailored more for delicate body touchups and fine detailing.

Unfortunately, Canadian Meguiar's retailers do not have access to many of the great Meguiar's products. They can't even get M205 or M105. Maybe some local retailers could get their hands on some Meguiar's unigrit sandpapers, but I believe such product only comes in packages of 25 sheets. I don't think I need that many.

My only option is to get my unigrit papers from ADS, as ADS sells unigrit paper by the piece. I will be getting some 2000, 2500, and 3000 grit unigrit from ADS in a couple weeks when I head down to the States. ADS doesn't ship to Canada...



Anyway, what kind of polish should I use for my recently wetsanded and compounded hood? The hood looks great now. I think polishing it would further enhance the gloss and depth of the color. But what is a suitable polish for this type of durable paint? I have two choices: SwirlX and M205. According to MeguiarsAsia on youtube, SwirlX is less aggressive than M205. According to MOL, SwirlX is more aggressive than M205. In theory, I should be using a more aggressive polish on the hard paint. But between SwirlX and M205, which one is more aggressive?

[Eddie6th]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I think both makes of paper are very good.Yes,I've heard of trizact before,but thanks for the info...i didn't know it was an equivalent of unigrit.

Glad to see your persistence paid off.

Are you going to polish with a DA? A lot of users like 205 with that from what I've read.

What about DC2?...pure polish. I like it even on light colored vehicles.

[KC's]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Sorry for late

I simple find u r irresistible....

forum will not be the same without u

[Eddie6th]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

Did you try DC2?

I'm interested to know how it appears on a light silver?

It's noticeable on my light blue.

[SHYNEMAN123]

Re: New Paint Too Hard; Simple RIDS require wetsanding for correction

I think both makes of paper are very good.Yes,I've heard of trizact before,but thanks for the info...i didn't know it was an equivalent of unigrit.

Glad to see your persistence paid off.

Are you going to polish with a DA? A lot of users like 205 with that from what I've read.

What about DC2?...pure polish. I like it even on light colored vehicles.

One big diff with 3m Trizact is the $ 5.00 for a 3000 grit 6" dia sheet price ouch !!! When I run out of free samples not sure if I will Purchase.