Surface comes out streaky and oily

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by TH0001
I just thought of something because of your post Octane...

I've kind of had a similar problem with NXT liquid, once it seperates, I cannot get it to mix back. I let it sit on my shelf for about a 1 month or so (because I was playing with 21) and when I went back to use it, I it was white solids and clear liquid. I shook it so hard for almost ten mintues that water/liquid was seeping out the threads on the cap.

I removed the cap, the wax looked good and uniform, I started applying and noticed after about 2 applicators worth, it start to pour seperated product out the cap. I shook again, for about a minute to get it mixed, and then 1 applicator later it was seperated. This is when I started experincing the problems with NXT now that I think about it.

My 21 is maybe 2 months old, and at first was great but has become hard to mix, even in a half full applicator bottle. And I have almost a whole gallon left!!!! When both the NXT and 21 where brand new I didn't notice this at all.

I didn't realize you were using the NXT liquid. I use the Paste version exclusively, hence no seperation. I like the paste a lot. And it hazes over very quickly. I believe the NXT Paste is easier to use than the liquid version. Even if applied to heavily, it is easy to wipe of and no streaks. "Bubba proof" you might say.

If Richard has streaking, it has to be an issue with the #21, not the prep work. And it also appears that humidity is not a factor either.

The original sample of #21 that I got from detailbarn has not seperated.

RamAirV1

[Tom Weed]

I have just skimmed this thread, but as far as streaking goes from my experience, humidity plays a part, especially on black vehicles. I have a bottle of 21 that's probably over a year old and has separated, I do notice the water beads as I apply the product, but I don't remember seeing any streaks unless it's been warm and humid here. Then I definitely see them, especially if I apply 2 coats and it's most apparent on the hood. I would say this is similar to using Last Touch when it's muggy outside, which can be very difficult to use. I've learned to use it sparingly which helps to reduce the streaks.

If I remember correctly after I have had streaking from NXT or 21, I have lightly misted the streaked area (hood) with a QD and then removed it with a microfiber towel or Quick detail pad and it seems to help.

Just my 2 cents...

Tom

[RedSoxRacer]

Originally posted by OctaneGuy

Having come from the skin care industry with my father who's spent his lifetime pioneering and perfecting emulsions for use in the medical and skin care industries (He invented the LEE Low Energy Emulsification method that's taught in Chemistry text books)

Richard [/B]

Very cool! I just read about your Dad, Dr. Lin, recently. My Mom is a Plastic Surgeon and I came across some of his products and research in some of her books and articles around her office.

[RCBuddha]

Has anyone tried 21 over other brands of polish? Does it still streak? I would think that it would NOT be the #21 if it works fine over over other brands of polish. (Just thinking out loud here)

[OctaneGuy]

Ok it appears we have 2 issues at play.

1.) M21 Separation
2.) M21 Visible streaking on dark colors where it appears from certain angles as uneven application.

As far as #1, I believe I've tracked down why mine has separated. I transfer my M21 from the 64OZ bottle to the Meguiar's "ketchup bottles". I then use that bottle for working with.

What appears to be happening is that I'm not fully shaking/blending the product that's in the 64OZ bottle before pouring it into the smaller bottle, so there's an uneven proportion of product to clear liquid, though it's not immediately visible, it seems to take about a week of sitting for separation to occur.

As the product in the smaller bottle gets used up, if it's not constantly shaken, it will separate to the point where the M21 formulation cannot hold the clear liquid and it kicks it out, and eventually shaking doesn't do any good.

IMO, if a product is separating, it's a bad sign. I'm not a chemist, but I've lived with one all my life, and if you have to drain out product that was originally a part of the formulation, something has got to give (performance/stability), otherwise the chemists wouldn't have formulated the chemical with it in the first place.

CONCLUSION
So atleast in my case, I will either use it directly from the 64OZ bottle or I will ensure that the product is fully shaken before tranferring to small containers.


As for #2, it appears some people are saying that they are experiencing streaking even though separation has not occured. We don't know for a fact whether proper prep has been done. I will do a side by side test of separated product to non separated product as soon as I can get a black test subject.

Originally posted by RamAirV1
If Richard has streaking, it has to be an issue with the #21, not the prep work. And it also appears that humidity is not a factor either.

The original sample of #21 that I got from detailbarn has not seperated.

RamAirV1

What a small world!! That's cool!

Originally posted by RedSoxRacer
Very cool! I just read about your Dad, Dr. Lin, recently. My Mom is a Plastic Surgeon and I came across some of his products and research in some of her books and articles around her office.

Meguiar's formulates their products to work together. I doubt they would release a product to the public if it didn't work well with existing products.

Originally posted by RCBuddha
Has anyone tried 21 over other brands of polish? Does it still streak? I would think that it would NOT be the #21 if it works fine over over other brands of polish. (Just thinking out loud here)

[RCBuddha]

Originally posted by OctaneGuy I doubt they would release a product to the public if it didn't work well with existing products.

I agree, but IME, some polishes work better under certain LSP's.

For fun, I just hand polished a small section of my dark green SUV with Menzerna FPII. I then purposely applied a thick coat of 21. Buffed off with no problems, no streaks or anything. The hood was warm, and I was in indirect sun. For the record, here was what the weather was like:

Temp: 76 degrees F
UV Index: 8 Very High
Wind: From W at 2 mph
Humidity: 45%
Pressure: 30.03 in.
Dew Point: 53°F
Visibility: 10.0 miles

I think that the problem for the thread's author is a combination weather and technique. Some days, products will work as advertised. Other days, it may not. You just have to be aware of this fact, and adjust your product selection accordingly.

I'd try using a 50/50 solution of Rubbing alchohol and water before applying 21 or NXT. That should get rid of any unbuffed polish residue, and leave a nice squeaky clean surface to apply an LSP.

[RamAirV1]

My #21 was the 16 oz. version from ADS, and it came in the ketchup bottle. I was wondering if that was a factor. Maybe air got into the bottle and it started to set up? Just speculation on my part.

RamAirV1

[Mike Phillips]

This thread is a very good read...

I'm going to forward the link to this thread to Mike Pennington, our Director of Training and ask him read through it and possibly share certain points with R&D and see if we can add some insight or helpful information.

[TKDDAD]

Originally posted by RamAirV1
My #21 was the 16 oz. version from ADS, and it came in the ketchup bottle. I was wondering if that was a factor. Maybe air got into the bottle and it started to set up? Just speculation on my part.

RamAirV1

Coincidently, I e-mailed Rick at ADS today because I ordered a small bottle of #21 last Friday which I haven't received yet (I bought the small one since I couldn't swing a 64 ouncer )...anyway I asked him if he had ever heard of product seperating and here's Ricks response to my question:

I'll look into this Bill. Your product should be fine. I would shake it good when you receive it.

Don't know if it means anything but I've never used #21 before that's why I bought the small size...I'll let you know what happens when I use it this weekend...

And I agree Mike, this is a great thread....

[Meguiar's Car Maniac]

Does anyone have pics to illustrate the thread?

Just to check if we all talk about the same problem...


This might help Mike & Mike...

[JagLover]

I polished the hood of my black XJ6 last week using M02 followed by M09 followed by M26. This was all done by hand and I had no streaking issues. Today I repeated the entire process with a PC. I did wash the car with dish detergent (to remove the M26) and I clayed the hood before using the PC. I ended up with bad streaking when tring to remove the M09. I don't know if this relates to the problems others have mentioned in this thread but I thought I'd share my experience anyway.


Also, I have water separation problems when applying the M26. As I put the product on by hand, beads of water magically eminate from the liquid wax.

[technik]

I guess there is no hard and fast solution for it.

Has anyone tried GC? Does it have the similar "streaking" problem?

[Monk]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
This thread is a very good read...

I'm going to forward the link to this thread to Mike Pennington, our Director of Training and ask him read through it and possibly share certain points with R&D and see if we can add some insight or helpful information.

Mike--I'll throw in my experience on this only because it differs slightly and may shed some light, although I am a newbie. Dark Blue 2005 Acura. Washed, clayed, 80'd, NXT liquid by DA with DA removal. Florida humidity. Chased the streaks for about a half hour, at least. Assumed I had used too much wax, or maybe had not cleaned all of the 80 off.

BUT, came back at the same car 4 weeks later, washed and NXT liquid by hand and removed by hand. Also Florida heat/humidity. Still had to chase the streaks with MF for at least a half an hour, repeatedly grabbing a fresh MF.

[Tom Weed]

Monk,
I would agree with you, only times I have had issues with streaking is when it's hot and muggy outside on dark vehicles. Both 21 and NXT do it for me, but the common thread is the humidity.

Tom

[Marcus]

Just to make matters worse: I've had the problem with NXT during wintertime (i.e. very low humidity), putting it on in room temperature (warm garage), letting it cure for 48 hours.

Had to buff like a maniac to get rid of the streaking, still no perfect result on those spots

So, is it really humidity related?

/Marcus