Using #83 with the Rotary

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey Jeff,

Something does not seem right. Meg's #9 and #82 are very very similar. Was all of the marring gone for sure before the #9? I am at a loss. I have used #9 on some of the most delicate finishes and have not seen that happen before except on very scratch sensitive paint. There is a possiblity that your paint is very scratch sensitive; Some Honda and GM paints can be like that.

Perhaps try the same spot but with the rotary buffer and #9 with the W-9006 Pad. If that removes the marring, and I bet it will, then it is the paint. Follow this with #66 on a W-9006 and the PC, then top with NXT.

I am really curious as to what is going on with your paint!

Tim

Tim, I am unsure as to what is going on as well. To be honest I was pretty happy with the results of the last pass with #82 before going to the #9.

This cobweebing is ultra light. Almost undetectable.

I have polished the heck out of this thing over the last month and I think I am ready to move on for now. Right now I am in the middle of setting up to run #3 over a side panel. This panel was last done with #82. If I can get this pass done and not see the cobwebbing, I will likely move along and then go to #81 by PC then by hand then NXT. I have a few more vehicles lined up to do and can play with #9 some more on those. Maybe after some more experince is gained I can then shoot it at my truck again.

But as this is the 2nd attempt at #9 and I am getting the same results. And I am backstepping each time, I think it's time to give up on #9 for now.

As far as was the cobwebbing there after the #82 , yes, but it was less than now. Today, I walked up and the first sun reflection I lookd at showed the cobwebbing. Nobody else would likely ever notice it but I do.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Jeff,

Go over the panel with #3 and a W-8006 Polishing Pad and the PC set to speed 4. Just do one area and look for marring. I am just trying an experiment for a moment. Then let me know!

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey Jeff,

Go over the panel with #3 and a W-8006 Polishing Pad and the PC set to speed 4. Just do one area and look for marring. I am just trying an experiment for a moment. Then let me know!

Tim

Phooey,
I was already good and started on the #3 with the 9006.

I need to wipe opff 2 panels of #3 first then I'll do it. I have a clean 8006 with me.

I'll do this on the hood where I last used #9.

[Jeff Smith]

OK Just completed 1/4 of the hood. #3/PC/Speed 5 and a 9006.

Here is my problem. This cobweebing is totally undetectable with the XENON light. So what I am I looking for??

I see you are gone now. I will revert beack to continuing with #3 and @ speed 4 and the 9006 pad.

Again, this cobwebbing is so mino it is only detectable under direct sunlight. Even then you have to move your head around to find some.

[Jeff Smith]

Tim, this is where I am at. I have completed a full pass with #3 and the PC @ spped 4 and a 9006, Looks good but micromarring still there.

We are in for rain here, looks like the next 2-3 days off and on.

Sunday night it looks like things are clearing up. If not sunday night then Monday, I will do a little test up. I think I see what you are getting at. I am assuming that if I can do a pass with #3 and a 8006 pad and induce micro-marring. either I am doing something way off or I have super scratch sensitive paint. I believe that is your thinking anyway.

But Sunday night or Monday, I will divide the hood up into quarters. I'll even tape it off. I'll do the following:
1/4 w PC/8006/#3 @Speed 4
1/4 w PC/9006/#3 @Speed 4
1/4 w/PC/9006/#82 @ Speed 5
1/4 w/PC/9006/#9 @Speed 5

I will do the best I can to get decent pics, Full sun, Xenon Light, Camera Flash.

As you see the above process as written, If you see anything I should change, speak up. It just appears to be to be the best way I can show you the different results I get. Hopefully this cobwebbing will show up in the carera shot. I have that feature on my camera to take very up close shots so I'll that and normal mode. I'll try to provide a very broad range of pics.

If you wish to provide specific info on how to go about applying each product to a given quarter, please speak up as we want to keep the process as consistant as possible.

I'll do all with a freshly washed pad. Just washed a bunch today.

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Jeff,

I am leaning towards you having scratch sensitive paint. That is why I suggested the #3 and the W-8006 pad. The #3 does not have any cut, but the slight cut achieved from the W-8006 pad itself combined with the lubricity of the #3 may be just enough to correct the issue. Another trick is try what I suggested before:

"Perhaps try the same spot but with the rotary buffer and #9 with the W-9006 Pad. If that removes the marring, and I bet it will, then it is the paint. Follow this with #66 on a W-9006 and the PC"

Otherwise, I would use the speeds you have listed, and make sure to use clean pads and the best MF towels you have.

Keep trying each combo and the trick above and see if that helps.

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hi Jeff,

I am leaning towards you having scratch sensitive paint. That is why I suggested the #3 and the W-8006 pad. The #3 does not have any cut, but the slight cut achieved from the W-8006 pad itself combined with the lubricity of the #3 may be just enough to correct the issue. Another trick is try what I suggested before:

"Perhaps try the same spot but with the rotary buffer and #9 with the W-9006 Pad. If that removes the marring, and I bet it will, then it is the paint. Follow this with #66 on a W-9006 and the PC"

Otherwise, I would use the speeds you have listed, and make sure to use clean pads and the best MF towels you have.

Keep trying each combo and the trick above and see if that helps.

Tim

I'll change to the following then.

1/4 w PC/8006/#3 @Speed 4 (Or should I run this at Speed 5 since we are attempting defect removal?)
1/4 w/PC/9006/#82 @ Speed 5
1/4 w/PC/9006/#9 @Speed 5
1/4 w/RB/9006/ #9 @ 2.5 (1300 Rpm)

I'll be using an Ultimate wipe for removal of each. Unless you think I should run with a SSMF

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Jeff,

Sorry I did not reply back last night. I went to bed as I was just dead tired!

In your case, I would use the PC on speed 5 with the #3 and the W-8006. If this does not do it, then I would try the rotary trick I mentioned. If that still does not do it, then we have to come up with a new strategy.

On that Extreme Make-over truck I completed, I had to test many different combos before I hit the one that worked. But that is part of the fun!

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hi Jeff,

Sorry I did not reply back last night. I went to bed as I was just dead tired!

In your case, I would use the PC on speed 5 with the #3 and the W-8006. If this does not do it, then I would try the rotary trick I mentioned. If that still does not do it, then we have to come up with a new strategy.

On that Extreme Make-over truck I completed, I had to test many different combos before I hit the one that worked. But that is part of the fun!

Tim

Here is where I am at.

I taped the hood in half tonight 1/2 got done with the #3/8006/PC at Speed 5. The other half got done with the #9/9006/RB. After completing both sides I wiped down with an Ultimate wipe and FI. After that I wiped off both sides with an UW and 50/50 IA and Distilled Water.

The results:

#3/8006/PC @ 5

I actually instilled more cobwebbing into the half done with the #3/8006/PC @ 5 then there was before I started. Keep in ind here the last thing done to this was a pass of #3 /9006/PC @ 4.5. Prior to this pass there was the hit & miss minor scratch. You had to look really hard to even suspect there was cobwebbing under the XENON light. You would have to hold the light at various angles and at various distances before I could locate any cobwebbing. After this pass the cobweebing stuck out like a sore thumb. As soon as I put the light to it the first thing I noticed was the cobwebbing was significantly increased to an unacceptable level.

#9/9006/RB @ 2.5 (Makita)

This turned out pretty good. There is some very light micro-marring present but is hard for me to call it cobwebbing as it does not seem to take on the cobwebbing appearance that I am used to, even when holding the light behind ny head about 3' back from the finish. There could be some cobwebbing but I would call it borderline. This half is not what I would consider perfect but I do suspect thatyour recommendation of the #66 just might do it. I hope so.

Comparing both halves at night with the XENON shows the better results at this time, hands down are on the side done with #9/9006/RB @ 2.5 (Makita).

So, this is my plan for now. I am holding tight. Tommorrow I want to compare both sides under the sun. When I wake up I will QD both sides with FI. I will also give them another 50/50 wipe and compare the results. Time permitting I will take pics of both halves.

Once the above is done I will proceed to apply #66 with the PC and a 9006 pad @ speed 5 on the half last done with #9 and the RB. Again, time permitting I will take pics. Then I'll stop there, post the pics and hold toght till we discuss further. I want to make sure I am getting the results you expect before proceeding to do the entire truck in this fashion. It looks good to me but maybe if I can show you the results, you might have another idea. I am only going to focus on the hood till we get this down to where we like it. I think we are close thanks to your advice.

[Jeff Smith]

OK Tim,

Was partly cloudy today so I had a heck of a time trying to get a break in the clouds clean enough for full sun. Some of the pics have to sun just breaking or ducking behind a cloud but I think will suffice for our needs.

The following "4" pics are of the drivers side of the hood having been done with #3/8006/PC @ 5

The camera did not really do a great job of picking up the cobwebbing one the first pic but the other 2 do show it. I am sure your trained eye will pick it out.






The next 5 pics are of the passenger side of the hood done with #9/9006/RB @2.5 (Makita)

Under direct sunlight there is still the slight hint of cobwebbing but not really enough to call it cobwebbing as there are not enough scratches to actually creat what I would call a full cobweb effect.






OK. You have that. Now I hope to do a run with #66 and get you some pics of those before I lose anymore sun.

[Jeff Smith]

Tim,

Since I was going to wax with #66 I went ahead and did the whole hood up. The clouds kind of cleared out which made for better pics. The camera strap got in the way and I did not realize this until uploading but I think they will suffice for our intention here. I let it sit about 1/2 hour, passed to swipe test then removed with an UW.

These 2 pics are of the side last done with #3/8006/PC @ 5



These 2 pics are of the side last done with #9/9006/RB @ 2.5



OK. There you have it. The side last done with the RB is much better than the side last done with the PC. Now. I don't think the picture brings it out well enough but IMHO the #66 pass actually instilled a tad more cobwebbing than was there prior to this pass. It might just be my imagination but that was the first impression I had when looking it over.

I am holding here until I here from you. If you think we should have a go at trying another appraoach I am game for it. I can accept your #9 -#66 plan for now and hopefully after gaining a little more experience with the products be able to refine my technique and improve the results to some degree. Or, if you think there might be another combination to try I am game.

If we run with the #9>#66>NXT plan, I will likely go with a hand applied application of #81 between #66 and NXT unless you think that might be a bad idea.

[Monk]

Hope you don't mind my jumping in here. In the second set of pics do you see what appear to be little pits around the sun spot? I get those too, and can;t figure out if I just did not see them before because my eye was distracted by the swirls, or whether I am instilling them in some way. Issue is the same with the DA and the RB, for me. The pics I am referring to are the 9/9006 RB 2.5, especially the 4th of 5.

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by Monk
Hope you don't mind my jumping in here. In the second set of pics do you see what appear to be little pits around the sun spot? I get those too, and can;t figure out if I just did not see them before because my eye was distracted by the swirls, or whether I am instilling them in some way. Issue is the same with the DA and the RB, for me. The pics I am referring to are the 9/9006 RB 2.5, especially the 4th of 5.

Yes, I have had them from Day 1 of owning the truck. They are in the paint and in there good. When I first bought the truck I hand washed it a few times and then put on NXT. I saw the pits some time after and suspected I had not let the NXT set up properly or something.

Then, after getting all set up and claying and playing with some polishes and having removed the NXT, I soon realized they were in the paint. I decided not to focus on going after this specifically as I suspected they were likely all through the paint layers. With all the work I have done I really can't say I have either improved this or worsened it. As I have stated before, I almost wish Meg's would make a dedicated filler prodcut just for those times when things can't be completely cleaned and polished out of the paint.

I am saving some money for a custom paint job. I pity the shop I pick because I am going to "beg" them to let me watch!

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Jeff,

Your results are what I expected. Note how I said the rotary would remove the marring. The trick is whether you have any buffer holograms or not after using the #9 or #82 with the rotary. If the answer is no, then I would skip the #66 and just move to the NXT. If the answer is yes, then I would use the #66 (with the W-9006 Pad and a slower speed of ~3 on the G100) followed by the NXT.

Based on what I am seeing, I would suggest that you take extra care in using really clean pads and MF towels. I would use a dedicated pad for each product, and not a pad that has been washed (in case some product residue remains in the pad). I would use the Ultimate Wipe for product removal and a MF bonnet for the removal of the LSP.

You appear to have one of those scratch sensitive finishes. Again, to be certain, I would need to work on it myself. But it does appear to be the case.

Keep at it!

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hi Jeff,

Your results are what I expected. Note how I said the rotary would remove the marring. The trick is whether you have any buffer holograms or not after using the #9 or #82 with the rotary. If the answer is no, then I would skip the #66 and just move to the NXT. If the answer is yes, then I would use the #66 (with the W-9006 Pad and a slower speed of ~3 on the G100) followed by the NXT.

Based on what I am seeing, I would suggest that you take extra care in using really clean pads and MF towels. I would use a dedicated pad for each product, and not a pad that has been washed (in case some product residue remains in the pad). I would use the Ultimate Wipe for product removal and a MF bonnet for the removal of the LSP.

You appear to have one of those scratch sensitive finishes. Again, to be certain, I would need to work on it myself. But it does appear to be the case.

Keep at it!

Tim

Tim, I figured you would be along soon.

OK. Understand all Use #66 if i suspect holograms. Jump to NXT if not. I suspect I will be better off biting the bullet and using the #66. With my inexperience with the Rotary and the hard time I have seeing defects on this white paint, I figure it's likely the wisest thing for me to do.

I think I actually used 3.5 on the PC to apply the #66. I'll back that down to 3. I did open up a brand new 9006 pad fot this and now see that I will need another case of these things. I do clean my pads but always reuse the same pads for the same products.

I'll get started redoing the #9 pass with the RB again. I must say I am kind of glad I am getting close to bringing this iteration to closure so I can get one of the other vehicles in the cue started. and get back into a maintenace mode on mine. This thing is kicking my butt.

I do have a few more questions to pose concerning scratch sensitive paint but need to put some a little more though into forming my thoughts into words.

Tim, I really appreciate the hand holding here. The more I learn with all this the more I realize just how inexperienced I am. Thanks much for taking the time to work with me and help me teach myself a thing or 2.

I am going to take a break tonight and go braindead and play a computer game. Rain forecasted for tomorrow so I'll look forward to getting started tomorrow night or Wed.