Using #83 with the Rotary

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Jeff,

If you look at the Meguiar's video, it is demo'd on how to pick up product with the rotary buffer at the 10:00 O'clock position. And as far I know, that is how Mike, myself and many others pick up product. The aggressive action of the rotary requires enough product to prevent the product from drying out too quickly. You could place product on the pad, but it would have to be a fair amount more than what you are used to using with the PC. These are very different machines.

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hi Jeff,

If you look at the Meguiar's video, it is demo'd on how to pick up product with the rotary buffer at the 10:00 O'clock position. And as far I know, that is how Mike, myself and many others pick up product. The aggressive action of the rotary requires enough product to prevent the product from drying out too quickly. You could place product on the pad, but it would have to be a fair amount more than what you are used to using with the PC. These are very different machines.

Tim

I was hoping to check the video out tonight before starting via the BCC website. But I am behind this Govt. Firewall and can't get it to load.

[Jeff Smith]

Well, as expected, things went OK.

Last night I did up the Roof, Hood, Both Front Fenders and Front Doors. I stopped there as I wanted to do a side by side comparison of the results of this pass as opposed to the last under daylight conditions.

There is some "extrememly light cobwebbing" and also some likely light holograming. But the Holograms are such that they are almost nonexistant. You might think you see one and then on closer inspection not be able to find it again. I think both of these issues are to be expected someone considering my inexperience with the Rotary as well as my use of the 8006 pad.

I used you method of applying via the lines. Used 6-8" lines depending on size of the area to be worked. There were a couple of areas that were layed out as such to where it really did not make sense to cut the areas in half so I just used 2 lines.

Last night I had major sling when doing the horizontals. I think mostly due to my inexperience with this method as well as the need for me to reach to get to them. The sling was greatly minimized with the Verticals. I still have not watched the video yet but I found through your advice and trial and error that if I raised the lip of the pad up just a tad, sling was almost non-existant as long as I did not try to bite too much out of the line of product at once. I tried to stick to going for it at the 10 O'clock position but repeatedly forget and even though I forgot quite often, the pad tipping thing worked to greatly minimize this.

My work time was greatly incresed by the use of this method. I went from one questionable pass to being able to make 3-4 passes and could likely have gone for another one or 2 if I wished but I appeared to be breaking down the product well enough. I did not wish to push my luck as I was doing this at night and even though we have decent lighting here. It is still not daylight or adequate garage lighting. So that, compounded with the fact that my white paint is hard to see product breakdown on, I tried to watch it as best I could and found that 3 passes were safe for me under the circumstances. I did go for one more pass if it was obvious I had not broken down the product. I did not time myself but I would guesstimate I spent an avaerage of a little over 2 minutes per 18x18" area.

I also want to comment on the extreme beading action of freshly applied #80. I had not washed the thing for a couple of days. Just a couple of QDs each day. Today, after the polishing I decided to give it a hand wash. That stuff beaded that water like mad. I could see the oily sheen left as the result from the product breakdown before washing so I knew it was oily. But after washing and removing most of this sheen along with all the sling splatter the water was beading like mad. I even hopped in and took the truck for a drive and all the water blew off within 2 miles down the road at about 50 MPH. All I had to do was return and give it a quick QD to mop up a little water dripping from the doorjambs and such.

Thanks for the tips thus far Tim. Much appreciated. My confidence level in this pass was greatly increased due to your advice allowing me some actual worktime.

Tonight I plan to start #80 with the Rotary @1300 w/ a 9006 pad.

After this I am undecided. I am thinking either #80 via the PC with either a 8006 pad or a 9006 pad. I may go ahead and do both for the experience sake, but I am beiginning to think a pass with the PC and a 8006 pad will likely instill more cobwebbing. I was thinking since I am hitting it next with the Rotary and a 9006 that I should skip the PC with 8006 and follow it up with the PC and a 9006 insted. I would love to hear any thoughts from you on this.

The more I touch the Rotary the more my respect grows for you guys that have that experience under your belt. The tool in and of itself is easy enough. But to have the experience to be able to eyeball a finish and make the decision as to what product, pad, speed combination to go for comes from experience. I know there are general guidelines but also know that you guys will deviate from these on an as needed basis. Having the experience and skill necessary to deviate and having the confidence in your ability to know you made a good choice is a skill that deserves repect.

[Tim Lingor]

Hi Jeff,

I am glad you are enjoying the rotary!

If you use #80 with the rotary with a W-9006 Finishing Pad, then you still could use either #80 with the PC and a W-8006 or W-9006. It all depends on the paint's hardness. Because the PC is so gentle, using it with the W-8006 and #80 even after the rotary and the W-9006, it would not be taking a step backward. The only time you may wish to stick with the W-9006 is if the paint is soft and marks/swirls very easily. Sometimes you need to step all the way down.

Another option I use often is:

Rotary with a W-8006 and #80
Rotary with a W-9006 and #82
PC with W-9006 and #82.

This combos works very well on paint that is very swirl sensitive.

Keep at it! You are doing great!

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Thanks Tim,

I guess I''ll head for the PC/8006 then PC/9006 then, What the heck. Will likely be a few months before I put #80 to work on my own paint anyway.

For the next step I want to go with either #82 or #9 and pretty much repeat the four steps I have sone with #83 and am working on with #80.

I'll have to decide which to run with. If memory serves the #82 is the more oily of the 2. I'll have to check that. If that is the case, I'll run #9 first then #82.

I took off all next week. You know I am just ate up with all of this when I planned a week off specifically to work on my truck. I like taking my sweet time. If I get one full pass on the truck a day done I'll be happy. While I am off, I'll likely be able to get 2 passes at least. No rush. Just enjoying the day.

I picked up a bottle of #81 a couple of weeks ago. After the #82 and #9 learning passes I will likely finish up with #3 with the PC @ 9006 pad then a hand applied run with #81. The plan at this time is to top off with 2 coats of #21 then a coat or 2 of NXT. I am sticking with NXT pretty much after that.

Then I have several other vehicles to do in various states and hope to do a very patient work up of each with commentary and pics through each step. Maybe kind of make it a forum project where the consensus of the participants of the thread decides which way I go with it.

Again, thanks so much for all the personalized assistance. You won't be hearing from me for a week because I am still without Internet at the house and I won't be at work. So no Internet access for Jeff. Even more incentive for me to get my butt outside and clean my truck.

[Tim Lingor]

You are very welcome Jeff! I am glad that I have been able to offer some ideas and suggestions to you.

As for the #82, I actually prefer using it with the rotary than I do #9. But #82 can be tricky to use. Sometimes it is easy, other times, not so easy.

Have fun on the your week off! Hopefully your net connection will be up and running soon!

Take care,
Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford

As for the #82, I actually prefer using it with the rotary than I do #9. But #82 can be tricky to use. Sometimes it is easy, other times, not so easy.

Have fun on the your week off! Hopefully your net connection will be up and running soon!

Take care,
Tim

Understand on the #82. Looks like I may have a challenge to figure that out without forum access. Hmm, Sounds like fun. Will make for an interesting vacation then. Looking foreward to that.

I'll just start that one off @ Speed 1 on the Makita and play and increase speed accordingly trying different methods. I am sure I'll find something that works in the week I am off.

I'll likely keep the laptop handy while doing my passes next week I'll write up what I do and how I do it and note what I see. When I get back I'll post and see what your thoughts are.

Well, I am outta here to finish up the current pass with #80. Glas I bought a gallon of that. The Rotary really eats that stuff up compared to the PC.

Anywho, See you in a week.

[Jeff Smith]

Tim,
I have put #s 9 & 82 to work and found I tend to agree with you.

#9 with the Rotary seemed to try to dry up very quickly for me while using the Rotary. It also left alot more minor cobweebing than I expected. Whereas #82 wiith the Rotary was probably good enough to go straight to wax. Even though I am following the Rotary application with the PC.

I did like #9 with the PC though and a 9006. I do wish I had done this prior to the use of #82 with the PC. It seemed the #9 left things a little glossier IMHO. I am considering following the #82 application with one pass with #9 and a 9006 pad & the PC. The 82 does a great job of removing swirl without adding cobwebbing with the rotary.

Something else I have done to minimize the cobwebbing is to wipe off the residue immediately after working each given area. Before, I was doing an entire panel and then wiping it off. I found with the #9, it dried so quick I had to rub pretty hard to get it off. So I think I caused most of the minor cobwebbing.

I don't want to make it sound like this cobwebbing sticks out like a sore thumb as it does not. I have to look very hard under direct sunlight and even then it does not appear to be widespread across the entire surface. It is more hit & miss.

Right now I am in the middle of using #82 with the PC and a 9006. I have the hood, roof and A-frames done. Was hoping to start the vertical stuff tonight while at work but we have scattered showers all through the area. Tomorrow looks great though.

I do have a couple of questions to throw out though.

With this pass with the #82 and the PC I expect to be good to go. I still am playing with the idea of following this up with a pass of #9 with the PC and a 9006 though. I'll likely do a test spot for the heck of it first.

Anyway, either way it goes, I plan on playing with #3 next. My original plan was to try it with the Rotary/9006 but now I am thinking I might just fool around and put more cobwebbing back on the finish.

Would you advise for me to skip the pass of #3 with the Rotary at this point and proceed to #3 with the PC and a 9006? Again, this would be mostly for the training aspect but I don't want to take a step backwards and risk instilling any more cobweebing since I have it all but removed.

After the pass of #3, whether it be with the Rotary or the PC, I plan to do a pass of #81 with the PC/9006 then follow that with a hand application of #81. After that it's NXT city.

After all this work I have to say the thing is obviously gleaming, considering my limited experience level. I have very high standards and am very close to having acheived them. If nothing else, this experience is teaching me that I still have a long way to go.

I kep getting folks asking me what kind of Wax I am using. I have to go through to whole explanation that they are looking at polished paint and not wax. I get alot of puzzled looks.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Jeff,

After the #82, you could follow up with the #9 with the PC. I sometimes have to do that on paint that is very scratch sensitive. I am surprised that you are getting marring from #9 as it is extremely mild. I do believe that it is the residue and wiping that is creating it. Next time, do not work the #9 as long and remove while still quite damp. I believe that will fix that issue.

As for the follow-up, if the finish is in great shape, I would use the #3 with the PC and the W-9006 Pad. At this stage, we are trying to refine the finish even further. So there is no need to use the rotary which may add holograms into the the otherwise excellent finish!

I am really glad that you are placing so much effort into learning the rotary! By doing so, you will have a good idea as what product/pad/speed will be needed for certain situations. Granted, different paints will pose a challenge, but by doing your homework like you have, you will have no trouble at all!

Tim

[Jeff Smith]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey Jeff,

After the #82, you could follow up with the #9 with the PC. I sometimes have to do that on paint that is very scratch sensitive.

I think I will like the results of doing it that way.

I am surprised that you are getting marring from #9 as it is extremely mild. I do believe that it is the residue and wiping that is creating it. Next time, do not work the #9 as long and remove while still quite damp. I believe that will fix that issue.

I agree that it is likely from the wiping. I also noticed early on that I tended to glaze/gum up the outer edge of the pad. I think this added to this cobwebbing. Frequent cleaning tended to help this but it still took me a while to gain a good enough grasp to keep it from happening in the first place.

Up till now I have been removing the product with a clean dry microfiber but am starting to wonder if I might be better off dampening it just a tad with FI. At least until my experince level has increased. I find that with my white paint it can be very hard to judge how long to work the product. If I had a gargage with better lighting, I could probably judge it better.

As for the follow-up, if the finish is in great shape, I would use the #3 with the PC and the W-9006 Pad. At this stage, we are trying to refine the finish even further. So there is no need to use the rotary which may add holograms into the the otherwise excellent finish!

I suspected that would be the best approach. I think I am done with the Rotary on this truck for this go around.

I am really glad that you are placing so much effort into learning the rotary! By doing so, you will have a good idea as what product/pad/speed will be needed for certain situations. Granted, different paints will pose a challenge, but by doing your homework like you have, you will have no trouble at all!

I am glad as well. Although I am still new at this I think I have comeup with a basic understanding of the working characteristics of each of the products I have used so far. I guess I have dialed in what I expect to be future applications on my finish.

So far I have figured out that the following applications seem to all work well on my finish and will likely be the pool of application methods I will draw from in the future barring any unforseen problems. I will likely not jump to #80 unless test spots with the other prove it necessary.

#80 / RB / 8006
#80 /RB /9006
#82 / RB/ 9006
#9 / PC / 9006

I still need to figure out if #3 with the PC will prove useful or just jump straight to the #81 with the PC. I have a feeling that I will skip the #3 in the future.

I defnately want to have one more go with #9 on it though. I think with a little more focus on amount of product and not working so loing I should expect to see better results, and am pretty confident I will acheive those.

Thanks much for the help. I am getting there.

[tguil]

Jeff,

I think that you have white mastered. It's time for you to move on to black.

Tom

[Jeff Smith]

I do have a Black '04 Silverado sitting in the driveway I should be starting soon. Yesterday I slapped some #66 on it to cover it until I get to it. I have a Stratus in the Driveway whigh is next then after that a "04 Monte Carlo.

The good thing about all these is that they are relatives & freinds and when I start them, they are mine until I am done. The owners will be helping me as well so I will be able to take my sweet time.

[Jeff Smith]

Well, I got started on the #9 tonight. I finished up all the vertical stuff today with #82 and did the horizontals tonight with #9 & the PC w/9006, Speed 5. I must say I must have learned something through all of this. I really like what I am seeing.

I did it differently than before and although it is still dark here I don't see the cobwebbing. I am sure there is a hit & miss spot of it somewhere across the finish but I can't see it. I put the XENON light all over the panels and can't find any, plus on the aircraft hgr I park next to we have a bunch of lights simliar to what you would expect to see at a Professional Sports field. No cobwebbig in those reflections either, So Jeff is a happy man at this point. We'll see what Mr. Sun has to say about it tomorrow.

I made sure I stuck to 18x18" areas. Applied product to the pad with a thin (thinner line than I used last time) line just outside the backing plate. I was able to confortably get 3 passes with a slow arm speed. I could have gone for four I guess but the product appeared to be broken down rather well and I did not wish to risk dry buffing or having to remove dry product. I wiped each area off immediately after polishing. Whereas before, I was doing an entire panel before removing. I don't think I hit a dry spot with the MF during the entire process.

I cleaned my pad after each 1/2 panel with a terry towel. I did something a little differently this time though. I hit the pad with FI before putting it to the terry towel. It appeared to help keep things moist and clean. At no time did my pad gum up at the outer edge this time. So I must have hit the nail on the head.

I am starting to realize that if a person can go through the process trouble free, as I seem to have been able to do tonight, then the outcome should be what is expected. But if anything pops up during the process like the gumming of the edge of a pad, product drying to quickly, pad saturation etc., then the end result will be in question. I guess what I am trying to say here is that while doing this stuff if there is any complication while doing it, the end results are probably going to be questionable. In a nutshell, if the process isn't going smooth, STOP, re-evaluate and try something else. I actually did the first spot tonight 3 times before I was happy. Mostly due to interuptions from co-workers asking me what kind of "WAX" I was using.

After completion I used FI for the first time tonight for a full QD. Great results. I can see where it could be rather streaky if overapplied though. Fortunately for me I tend to go pretty lite with any of the QDs so this was not an issue. The only time I noticed where streaking could have been a factor was as I fold my MFs twice for QDing, and use one side to apply and one to remove, For the last clean section of the MF that tends to be slightly damp already from the QD working it's way through the MF. If I applied the FI here at the same rate as the rest then the sreaking started to show. So it was time for a fresh MF. (Ultimate Wipe). I am glad I loaded up on the Ultimate Wipes from the Katrina Relief sale. I got 4 packs.

Anywho, as stated before I am happy thus far. Unfortunately I won't be able to finish up the #9 application today as I have other plans. But hopefully I can at least get stared on the verticals when I get to work tonight. Rough Job Huh?

I might pull it into the hangar after I finish this #9 pass. That place is bright as heck. Numerous lights all over the dome.

[Jeff Smith]

Well Phooey Tim, I dunno what happened. The cobwebbing is back under close scrutiny under the direct sunlight. Very light cobwebbing but there all the same. It does appear to be worse now than it was after completion of the last pass of #82 with the PC and a 9006.

I don't know what to make of this. I thought last night went smooth as silk. I am wondering if #9 just does not like my paint.

Any thoughts here?

Right now I only have the A-frames, roof and hood done with #9. I almost wish I had not started this last pass with #9 now. I have half a mind to revert back to the #82 and skip the #9 althogether. I don't seem to be having much luck with it on this paint.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey Jeff,

Something does not seem right. Meg's #9 and #82 are very very similar. Was all of the marring gone for sure before the #9? I am at a loss. I have used #9 on some of the most delicate finishes and have not seen that happen before except on very scratch sensitive paint. There is a possiblity that your paint is very scratch sensitive; Some Honda and GM paints can be like that.

Perhaps try the same spot but with the rotary buffer and #9 with the W-9006 Pad. If that removes the marring, and I bet it will, then it is the paint. Follow this with #66 on a W-9006 and the PC, then top with NXT.

I am really curious as to what is going on with your paint!

Tim