General Motors?

[Aurora40]

Ah, sorry... Didn't notice your location. I figured just mentioning Purdue University would do it.

[BoilerPete]

Sorry so late....but, yes you guys are correct. I am a 2001 Purdue grad.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally posted by Aurora40
This is mis-quoted a lot, usually in an attempt to make GM (and American car companies in general) look arrogant.

Well, I didn't use it with the intent of making GM look arrogant, I was expressing dismay...I'm a GM guy, and until recently, had never owned anything but GM's (except for that '66 Mustang I had for a few months in 1980 ).

Originally posted by BoilerPete
...just remember this, in 10 or 20 years, Honda and Toyota will have to deal with GM/Ford-like pensions and their employee to retirees ratio to deal with

It's all a big cycle...all the manufacturing will come back to the US in 30 or 50 years when we're the "cheap labor".

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by BoilerPete
Sorry so late....but, yes you guys are correct. I am a 2001 Purdue grad.

I am a 1990 Purdue grad.

GM's biggest problems are the excessively high health benefit costs and outrageous benefits given to union workers. They have to share the blame with the greedy unions because they agreed to those things.

I'll put GM quality up against Ford or DC any day! Now the Germans, that's another story, but their cars cost a lot more! I wonder if the feds will bail out GM like they did Chrysler if the time comes?

RamAirV1

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by BoilerPete
And before someone says otherwise, their designs are improving by the minute.

As far as interiors, I have to agree. However, just today I saw the three new fullsize SUV offerings ('07 Tahoe, Yukon, and Escalade) roaming around outside of the now closed (and scheduled to be demolished) Lansing Car Assembly plants. I could not believe how HIDEOUS the rear-view of the three trucks looked. It was almost an embarrassment. They look like they were all supposed to be emulating the H2/H3, which I am not a particular fan of.

We'll see how they sell, but my first impression (without having the opportunity to get TOO close) isn't that good.

[Aurora40]

Originally posted by Setec Astronomy
Well, I didn't use it with the intent of making GM look arrogant, I was expressing dismay...I'm a GM guy, and until recently, had never owned anything but GM's (except for that '66 Mustang I had for a few months in 1980 ).

Yup, I was just stating it as an aside, I didn't think that was your intention.

[Michael Stoops]

Originally posted by RamAirV1
I wonder if the feds will bail out GM like they did Chrysler if the time comes?

Isn't the thinking that if GM files it will be Chapter 11, which is a restructuring proposition, rather than a full liquidation/closure (Chapter 13 I believe it is?). I thought Chrysler was on the verge of shutting down back in the day, it wasn't going to be a restructuring.

Remember, KMart filed Chapter 11 in January '02, emerged from it in May '03, and then essentially bought Sears, Roebuck & Co for $11Billion in November '04!

[rusty bumper]

My former company hired a retired instructor/engineer to help us with "Problem Solving" & "Build Quality" a few years back. And in his classes, he explained how a lot of corporate America's problems could be traced back to Wall Street investors.

Wall Street had developed the mentality of "I want the products/profits now", instead of waiting for it later. That kind of thinking hurt product quality over the years, and eventually the bottom line.

It's funny, we taught the Japanese how to build a quality product after the war, but when it came to us, we didn't even follow our own advice.

We used to have a sign hanging up that said: "Why is there always enough time to do it over, but never enough time to do it right?"

But hopefully things are changing for the better now.

[Xtreme99_s-Dime]

Being a GM fan since I was born, I was also in dismay to hear about their situation as well as Delphi. However, i think that the new products that are on the fringe of being released, namely the Ponitac Solstice and Saturn Sky platforms are going to be a HUGE help to the company and the organization just due to how much they aren't like the typical amercan car.

By the way, I saw someone mention the show "Top Gear" and I have seen every show since 2003. If you saw the recent ones, where they put up the "cool wall" they saw the Pontiac solstice and loved it. As well as them liking the new Cadillac CTS and CTS-V. And the LOVE the new Holden Monaro 6.0. (the new GTO).

I think the line between American and foreign car build quality and design should not only be blurred, but destroyed. I think that GM is finally seeing that its customers were seeing through their loyalty to GM and noticing the foreign market even more (and gas prices aren't helping either). And if you can't beat them, join them. Gm are making advances in their engine technology, fuel economy, interior design and body styling all in one huge lump. Which also explains why the new platforms are having trouble with quality, its because nothing in the car is old.

I don't know much about big-buisiness economics, but i don't think GM is going down without a fight.

[Pete-FWA]

Chrysler was in much deeper problems, both structurally as well as financially, in the 70s when they were forced to consider bankruptcy.

Lee Iacocca knew that any restructuring attempts would have failed as Chrysler was too deep in the hole. This is why he pushed and got loan guarantees from the federal government. With the infusion of cash from the government and private banks, they were able to battle their way out of the hole.

GM has done wonders for their product and their distribution, but the major deficits they face are the costs of each vehicle. Pension and medical expenses are killing them and trade differences between nations don't help their position.

Obsiously, GM still has quite a bit of perception to correct in the general population. A generation of people has been raised thinking GM was junk and Japanese and European vehicles are the best by far. Those people, despite being presented with great vehicles from GM, still tend to think of such offerings as second rate and inefficient.

[Pete-FWA]

Just read this:

DETROIT (AP) - General Motors Corp. isn't considering bankruptcy protection as a way to solve its financial problems, Rick Wagoner, the automaker's chairman and CEO, said Wednesday.

``There are significant costs to bankruptcy, and we don't think it's an option,'' Wagoner said in an interview with The Associated Press. ``Talking about it actually hurts the business.''

GM, which is the world's biggest automaker, has been suffering from declining U.S. market share, rising costs for materials like steel and a drop in sales of sport utility vehicles, the company's longtime cash cows. It cut production by 20 percent in the first three quarters of this year, hurting profits.


The carmaker also faces huge pension cost issues in the years ahead that some analysts said could push it into a bankruptcy reorganization.