General Motors?

[Blr123]

Afternoon all,

I'm wondering if anyone in the states has heard the rumour concerning GM, it's being reported here in the UK that they will be filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, anyone know anything about this?

Bryan

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Well, the main reason they're saying that in the UK.... because they didn't report it correctly... and are anti-American cars (Top Gear, need I say more?)

One of GM's largest parts suppliers, Delphi, just filed for Chapter 11 this week. They are not closing, just doing a bit of restructuring. Analysts are currently saying there is between a 30 and 50% chance that GM will end up filing for Chapter 11 by this time next year.

Personally, I doubt it will happen. GM is a large enough organization to restructure without bankruptcy, just shifting things around within or to different divisions. I only hope they're smart enough to try fixing themselves.

Their biggest obstacle is, and will always be the perception that people have of GM being "poor build quality."

GM's current line-up is one of the freshest, and best built that the company has had in many, many years -- and yet people still aren't pleased. A couple new models have been held back due to some quality control issues, and now people are saying "bad build quality continues." What they don't seem to realize is that if GM did release bad build quality, those held back cars would be sitting in driveways across America. It's actually a good sign that they are taking the time to fix their mistakes, or "perfect their production methods" before the cars are released, instead of after and doing a few costly recalls.

[Setec Astronomy]

The huge losses early this year sparked some rumors that GM might be forced into bankruptcy, which have started anew with the additional pension liability caused by terms of the spin-off arrangement with Delphi, now that they have gone Chapter 11.

It could be argued that the rumors earlier in the year were overblown and were used by GM for potential future bargaining leverage with the UAW.

In any event, it is a sad day for American industry when one of the true giants ("as goes General Motors, so does the nation") is forced into this position. And before you guys go off on me, I'm not defending them, so don't tell me "if they made cars like Hondas or Toyotas they wouldn't be in this mess"...but don't you wish that they would/could do that? Think how proud we could be of our domestic industry....oh well.

This is of course complicated, but, as we have seen played out so many times in recent years (and not necessarily at GM), the incredible greed of American corporate management ( as evidenced by Enron/Tyco/Worldcom) has led to the ruin of many great companies and lives.

Sorry about the rant, back to your question, no, nothing here but rumors.

PS The funny part about Delphi is the CEO apparently is some sort of bankruptcy "expert", he just took his previous company Chapter 11 two years ago! Too bad for Delphi they didn't pick a CEO with some experience in making money, or at least someone who had worked IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY. Don't get me started...

[Blr123]

Hi Guys,

I didn't mean to imply anything about american cars, just asking a question, I drive a GM (Vauxhall) car daily and have nothing but praise for it and the service and the build quality.

And Mike I absolutely agree totally with what you have said: -

"This is of course complicated, but, as we have seen played out so many times in recent years (and not necessarily at GM), the incredible greed of American corporate management ( as evidenced by Enron/Tyco/Worldcom) has led to the ruin of many great companies and lives."

And it isn't just in America, here in the UK it's easily as bad if not a LOT worse.............but that's a dif question and the hairs on the back of my neck are standing on end just thinking about it

One of the route causes is money and greed how much money do people need before they lose the urge to commit fraud i.e. that ***** billionaire who sells health food who was in prison for fraud.

Anyways thanks for the replies

Bryan

[thejazzguy]

Originally posted by Setec Astronomy
Too bad for Delphi they didn't pick a CEO with some experience in making money, or at least someone who had worked IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY. Don't get me started...

The Delphi guy only started in June (according to The Car Connection.) It's always tough to turn around a large (usually somewhat entrenched) company. The writing has been on the wall for Delphi for a while. GM offloaded them and then just squeezed the prices to try to make up for their own inefficiencies.

I hope that GM can pull through but it woudn't surprise me to see them file for Chapter 11 to restructure the company. I'm sure this would allow them (GM) to "strong-arm" the union into concessions. Let's hope some of the new GM stuff (Saturn Sky, the new Impala) does well.

[Setec Astronomy]

Originally posted by thejazzguy
The Delphi guy only started in June (according to The Car Connection.) It's always tough to turn around a large (usually somewhat entrenched) company. The writing has been on the wall for Delphi for a while. GM offloaded them and then just squeezed the prices to try to make up for their own inefficiencies.

IMO, GM offloaded them so they COULD squeeze them, like any other supplier. Delco, as a GM division, was saddled by the same entrenched corporate culture, union/pension burdens and "inefficiencies" as the rest of GM. If the writing was on the wall for Delphi...GM is scrawled right next to it.

It seems the Delphi CEO (Robert "Steve" Miller) does have automotive experience, prior to his stint at Bethelehem Steel, but a read of his resume sounds like more of a bankruptcy lawyer rather than an automotive CEO. It almost sounds like Delphi hired him because of his bankruptcy experience rather than anything else.

[the other pc]

Isn't calling a GM spinoff like Delphi (or especially GM itself) "somewhat entrenched" kind'a like calling China "somewhat Asian"?


PC.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Originally posted by the other pc
Isn't calling a GM spinoff like Delphi (or especially GM itself) "somewhat entrenched" kind'a like calling China "somewhat Asian"?


PC.

More like calling Fidel Castro a "liberal communist"

[Aurora40]

Originally posted by Setec Astronomy
("as goes General Motors, so does the nation")

As an aside, and since this thread is about GM, and since you all pretty much have it covered...

This is mis-quoted a lot, usually in an attempt to make GM (and American car companies in general) look arrogant.

The actual quote was from Charles Wilson, who was nominated to be Secretary of Defence. He was in a Senate hearing, answering a question about whether or not he'd have a conflict of interest in taking that position. His reply was:

"I cannot conceive of one because for years I thought that what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa."

[BoilerPete]

Whether you love or hate GM or Ford for that matter, just remember this, in 10 or 20 years, Honda and Toyota will have to deal with GM/Ford-like pensions and their employee to retirees ratio to deal with......quality (in business) is only half of it!...and for the record (just see the latest JDPowers #'s), GM has and is making quality cars and especially trucks. And before someone says otherwise, their designs are improving by the minute. They maybe (on the whole) behind DC (Dodge) some, but in my humble BA in VCD (graphic design) opinion, they ARE ahead of Honda and Toyota. H & T aren't even in NISSAN's (design and style) league as a whole right now.

[Blr123]

A quick question Pete...........where does the boiler in your ID come in to it?

Bryan

[Aurora40]

Originally posted by Blr123
A quick question Pete...........where does the boiler in your ID come in to it?

Bryan

I'd guess from his sig:

Purdue Gear head

[Blr123]

This must be american speak cause you've lost me .............I thought he might work on boilers that's all..............like me.

Bryan

[01sc496]

I'll take this one -

Purdue University's nickname is "The Boilermakers", referred to in short as "The Boilers".

I know this because I myself am a Purdue Grad....

[Blr123]

It's clear now

Bryan