Lemon Law for Defective Paint

[davidw]

I hope Im in the right forum for this:

I have a LL suit against Nissan for horrible paint on 2008 Armada.
Nothing but zillions of swirls and spider webbing over entire vehicle ( black ). I've complained since day one and Nissan has agreed to let me have it repaired by a local shop. It was a 3 step polishing job that lasted for 1 month then the swirls came back. The shop did the process again. Swirls came right back.. I was told that it is scratches in the clear coat. After further complaints to Nissan, they basically told me to go away so I filed a lemon law suit for the issue. The arbitrator ruled in my favor saying that the paint job IS defective and Nissan has 30 days to correct problem. What could they actually do to fix this. I was told that if they did a repaint ( which they hav not offered yet ) the value of the car would be greatly deminished. Is there a permanent cure for my problem...
I've read some other threads about swirls but I'm not confident that Nissan has the knowledge to repair. Any feedback is welcome....

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Good idea to let us know your location.

If you're in the Dallas, Texas area, I would be more than happy to go over your vehicle with you and explain every step of the correct process.

Basically, you need to find a good detailer or shop, and let them work their magic. I'm not saying that Nissan isn't at fault, but most swirls and scratches are cause from impropper washing, and I doubt thats the manufacture's fault.

Nick

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Is there a permanent cure for my problem...

No, there is not a permanent cure for swirls. You can get rid of them, then practice proper wash techniques. But no matter how hard you properly wash your vehicle, the swirls will rear their ugly little head again and you'll have to start the process all over again.

[davidw]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Thanks. I am in Phila, PA. The car has never been thru car wash. Only a local detail shop that does hand wash only and micro fiber towels. There is a Armada website where most poeple on there have the same issue as I do. I am very particular about who touches my truck. The scratches have literally been there since the car was delivered to me. I know some people would'nt be bothered by the swirls but they drive me insane. I would do all washes myself but with 2 kids ( 5 and 8 months ) there is not enough time in a day. ( plus I cant reach the roof haha ) .

[davidw]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Thanks for putting me in the right forum...

[3Fitty]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Wow, I'm surprised that you were succesful in you LL claim. What State are you in? I actually had a succesful LL claim against Lexus (for my own car) and I've litigated successful LL claims for others, but Lemon Laws vary from State to State and I don't think you would've been succesful in NY or NJ.

Good on you though! Depending upon your State, I'm sure you can find a good detailer to fix it and if you're anywhere near Dallas, I'd take Nick up on his offer as his work here is amazing.

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Well, no disrespect, but I do not believe that Nissan is responsible for this. But this is just my opinion. The swirls and scratches you are seeing could very well have been instilled by your car wash. Have you ever inspected their wash mitts? Dirty mitts could have caused your problem. How about their water? Are they bucket washing? Is their soap bucket clean?

My advice is to either do one of 2 things...

1-Find a good detailer in your area. Have your vehicle properly detailed, and your paint issue corrected. This is not going to be cheap for such a large vehicle like yours(I have no idea what detailers are charging in your area). Then, since you do not have the time, set up a maintenance program with that detailer. That way he is the only one caring for your vehicle. If he is a good detailer, he will do everything in hhis power to make sure your vehicle always looks it's best, and you don't have this problem anymore.

2-Make some time to take care of this issue yourself. Spending some time on this forum will gain you the knowledge to accomplish the finish you desire on your vehicle. Beware though, it is a lot of hard work, but well worth it in the end.

A suggestion that I'd like to make, if you do go with option #1, stop taking your vehicle to the same place you have been for your washes. You may just end right back where you started again.

Nick

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Wow, I'm surprised that you were succesful in you LL claim. What State are you in? I actually had a succesful LL claim against Lexus (for my own car) and I've litigated successful LL claims for others, but Lemon Laws very from State to State and I don't think you would've been succesful in NY or NJ.

Good on you though! Depending upon your State, I'm sure you can find a good detailer to fix it and if you're anywhere near Dallas, I'd take Nick up on his offer as his work here is amazing.

I suspect that the only reason he won his claim is because prior to the suit, Nissan did in fact try to correct the problem. And by trying to help him out with this problem, their actions admitted guilt. If they would have turned him away in the begining, or charged him for the work, then it would be doubtful that he would have won this claim.

I don't think it's such a good thing though. People shouldn't be able to sue a manufature for swirls on their paint. I honestly don't think that should be grounds for a suit to be filed. But this is just my opinion, and I'm sure someone will disagree with me. Claims like this are part of the reason prices get so high.

Nick

[Nick Chapman]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Oh, and davidw, I mean absolutely no disrespect towards you here. Please don't let my words speak for the entire forum. There is a wealth of knowledge here, and if you stick around, you will learn a TON about proper vehicle care.

[benhui86]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

I'm sure the swirls have nothing to do with nissan or your car having defective paint.... just the dealer who washed it for you.... after all your car is black and the slightest contact with anything on black causes swirls..... this happens on any car and any color but just more apparent on black cars..... on this forum, we learn the ways to minimize the possibilities of swirls and also ways of fixing them....

stop suing nissan and look for a better place to do car wash where they take care not to inflict swirls onto your finish.....

[davidw]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Oh, and davidw, I mean absolutely no disrespect towards you here. Please don't let my words speak for the entire forum. There is a wealth of knowledge here, and if you stick around, you will learn a TON about proper vehicle care.

None taken.. thx . I came for feedback and knowledge and I appreciate all responses.

The suit came about because the dealer delivered the car to me like that and they wouldnt do anything until I called Nissan consumer affairs. Maybe I should have just sued the stelaership instead...

[davidw]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

I'm sure the swirls have nothing to do with nissan or your car having defective paint.... just the dealer who washed it for you.... after all your car is black and the slightest contact with anything on black causes swirls..... this happens on any car and any color but just more apparent on black cars..... on this forum, we learn the ways to minimize the possibilities of swirls and also ways of fixing them....

stop suing nissan and look for a better place to do car wash where they take care not to inflict swirls onto your finish.....

I agree and I do think the swirls were created by the dealership prepping the car. They need to learn to learn how to do a better job with new car prepping IMO...

[3Fitty]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

I don't think it's such a good thing though. People shouldn't be able to sue a manufature for swirls on their paint. I honestly don't think that should be grounds for a suit to be filed. But this is just my opinion, and I'm sure someone will disagree with me. Claims like this are part of the reason prices get so high.

Nick

Actually, this is a myth perpetuated by insurance companies but rarely challenged so it has kind of become accepted as simply true. Every major study done on the issue has proved it wrong. http://makethemaccountable.com/myth/...eInsurance.htm

In any event, on the substantive issue, the standard for a LL claim (as I know them) is usually two fold:

1. The car is NOT driveable for a period of time (each state is different). NJ requires 20 days in the first 2 years, NY says 30 days in the first 18 months (each has a mileage limit as well).

2. The defect "substantially" impairs the value of the car. I guess that is how david made his claim.

Now, in this example someone suggested "it was probably the dealer" therefore the manufacturer should not be responsible. Well, I disagree and I think the law does as well. Here's why..

The dealership is an "agent" of the manufacturer. In other words, they work together in a symbiotic relationship to yield a profit for both. They work in concert with one another.

So, that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't go after the dealership, but why should the consumer have to worry about that. David bought a car, he expected it to be delivered in a certain condition and it wasn't. Let the dealership and the manufacturer figure out who is to blame and work it out between the two. Unless they can show that David was somehow negligent in the care of his care of the car, I say good on him.

When my Lexus went Lemon, I am about 90% sure it was the dealership who messed it up but Lexus and the dealership need to work things out between themselves.

[davidw]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

"The dealership is an "agent" of the manufacturer. In other words, they work together in a symbiotic relationship to yield a profit for both. They work in concert with one another.

So, that doesn't mean the manufacturer can't go after the dealership, but why should the consumer have to worry about that. David bought a car, he expected it to be delivered in a certain condition and it wasn't. Let the dealership and the manufacturer figure out who is to blame and work it out between the two. Unless they can show that David was somehow negligent in the care of his care of the car, I say good on him. "

At the arbitration hearing, Nissan USA tried to blame the dealer because they said the car was delivered to them witht he white plastic and the dealer accepted the vehicle. It's kind of nuts how Nissan USA wants to put the blame on the dealer who is selling their product. I think the problem is that maybe the dealer has no clue how to prep a new vehicle. If I leased the thing, I wouldn"t care but 52 g's is alot of dough to have a car that looks like someone prepped it with sandpaper.

[3Fitty]

Re: Lemon Law for Defective Paint

Good job!