Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

[s word]

In the 101 class I remember Mike speaking to rim cleaners and how to only use Chrome on true Chrome wheels. Which is not the case for me. But I did use what I think is the least "harmful" cleaner on my rims and am now having issues. In the past I was using Hot Rims (blue) much like the detailing spray. I'd spray a wheel, and wipe it off immediately, wet it with water and wipe again. The other day, I decided to try to use the product the intended way. Or what I think is the intended way. I sprayed the product on my rims, let it sit for just a few minutes and sprayed it off. I noticed large amounts of clear coat coming off the rim in certain areas, as if letting the cleaner sit for a moment worked its way under the clear coat and damaged it. There was no noticeable damage to the rim clear coat prior to this. Any ideas what happened? they are aftermarket rims, and they are aluminum. I am not trying to make a stink about it, just want to see if I did something I shouldn;t have.

[Brian Hann]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

s word,

Sorry to hear about this issue. There are a few things that are a little unclear from your post. Most of them could be cleared up by knowing exactly what product you used, exactly what kind of wheels you have, along with a good picture of the wheels. I should also point out that the directions on our wheel cleaners instruct you to only apply/clean one wheel at a time and leave on for only 15 seconds. At this point it may be better to give our Customer Care Center a call at (800) 347-5700 to discuss the details more thoroughly.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Ok, let me help clear it up. I will give the call center a ring, surely. Just to post up the details you ask for.

Wheels:
ESM-004
All aluminum with mirror finish lip.

Product:
Meguiars Hot Rims Aluminum Wheel Cleaner

I don't have a picture currently available. But could come up with one.

Use:
I did spray product on and rinse in the short few seconds. I improperly used word "minutes" to describe the time in previous post.

Note:
I don't intend this to look like I am blaming the product, I am purely trying to understand what could have potentially occurred so that I can prevent it ever from happening moving forward.
To add to the fun, I just got my car back from the body shop (for damage repair to door) and they do a full service detail free of charge. Well they didn't help this whole situation. It looks like they saw the mirror finish and reached for something more aggressive to clean because now I have a ton of the white stains on the lip, primarily where the clear coat is missing.

Questions:
I know this is a detailing/paint correction forum so if this is not the right place to ask let me know.
Because I now have patches of missing clear coat, and white stains I imagine I need to get some sort of wheel polishing done.

1. Can I strip out the remaining clear coat and run the wheel that way? if so how?
2. What is the downside of running the bare metal without clear coat? I clean wheel almost daily so dirt and brake dust would never bake in.
3. Does the wheel polish kit from Meg's take care of that white staining at least?

[Detailing by M]

This us the reason you do a test spot and see if your using the right product for the job. So with that being said.....
Sounds like the CC was already failing and the acid just helped seperate it from the rim.
I use Wheel Brightner, an extreammly strong Acid for most of the cars I do. I never have problems with it, because I test the rims FIRST.
For more sensative rims I use Sonax rim cleaner, non acidic and cleans great. So you might have used the wrong product

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Just want to chime in here to maybe clarify a couple of things:

Hot Rims Aluminum Wheel Cleaner is a pH neutral (7) wheel cleaner that is about as aggressive as soap and water. It is safe to use on bare, high polished billet aluminum wheels. If you look at the wheels on Barry Meguiar's '57 Chevy that we used in our Quik Tips Video on our DynaCone wheel polishing tool you see what we're talking about.


This is an uncoated, bare metal wheel. That means it has no clear coat on it and therefore is very delicate and easy to damage. Many people buy this type of wheel and believe they have chrome wheels, so they use our Hot Rims Chrome Wheel Cleaner on them, and immediately stain them white. That product is highly acidic, more so even than Wheel Brightener. It won't damage true chrome because that surface is extremely tough and durable. But use it on bare aluminum and you get this:



This is a sure sign of a bare, polished wheel and most definitely NOT chrome. By the way, I personally sprayed this product onto Barry's wheels on purpose for the making of that Quik Tips Video.

So, what does this have to do with s word's issue? Well, if this product is safe enough to use on this most delicate of wheel surfaces, it should be more than safe to use on a clear coated wheel, whether OEM factory clear coated or aftermarket clear coated. Remember, it's safe on NON-clear coated finishes, and those are much more delicate than a clear coat. It's also safe on anodized and powdercoated finishes, which can be extremely delicate. This is all I use on the satin black wheels on two of our cars at home. On my other car, with clear coated aftermarket wheels, I use Hot Rims All Wheel & Tire Cleaner.

Bottom line is that this product should not have caused any sort of problem with s word's wheels, so we need to figure out just what did happen. At this point we are most definitely NOT disputing the fact that something did, indeed happen. And s word, we very much appreciate you having an attitude that would prompt you to write "I don't intend this to look like I am blaming the product, I am purely trying to understand what could have potentially occurred so that I can prevent it ever from happening moving forward." We want to find out what initially caused the problem as well. Like you point out, the body shop just added to your misery by using an acid based wheel cleaner on the now exposed aluminum. That's really the least of your worries, however, since bare high polished aluminum can be polished back to a bright, clear finish. Look back up at the two images of the wheel on Barry's '57 and you'll see what we mean: the first shot, the one of the bright, clear finish isn't before we intentionally stained it - it was taken after we polished the wheel to remove the staining! With the clear missing from your wheel there are essentially two options: 1) strip off the clear and leave the wheels bare and polished, which means you'll have to really stay on top of them - potentially very tricky on a daily driver, or 2) strip the clear off, have the wheel fully polished, and then re-shoot a clear coat on it.

From what I can tell, this is your wheel, correct?


It sure looks like a painted or powder coated spoke with a polished lip, and likely fully clear coated. Very similar in construction and finish to the aftermarket wheels on my daily driver, Velox VX-6R:


My wheels have been cleaned with All Wheel Cleaner, the new All Wheel & Tire Cleaner, and even Wheel Brightener on plenty of occasions. Never an issue. Certainly Aluminum Wheel Cleaner would be totally safe on these wheels as it is far, far more gentle than any of those. Even if this was a bare aluminum lip, or an anodized lip, Aluminum Wheel Cleaner should not be a problem any more than plain old soap and water would be. So why there is an issue with your wheels is a bit of puzzle.

By the way, have you experienced damage on all four wheels, or just one? It could very well be that there was a manufacturing defect that allowed moisture to get under the clear and lift it. Don't get us wrong, we're not trying to pass the buck here, just getting everyone thinking about what might have happened since we're talking about such an incredibly mild product. It's every bit as mild as the Sonax wheel cleaner that Mario mentioned.

I know you're in contact with our Customer Care Center at this point, and that is the proper channel to sort through this whole situation. We just wanted to address this situation a bit more in depth here on the forum for others who might come across this.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

WOW that is one hell of a reply, appreciate all for taking the time. Don;t know where to start so I'll just jump in. in the 101 class I remember red = warning, blue=not harmful. The wheel in the picture is exactly that on my car. Same model and everything down to the finish. The clear is only coming up on the mirror finished lip. So where you see the bolts in the photo (i believe powder coat) is fine. The issue is on all 4 wheels unfortunately. There was no spot damage (like a ding or anything) near the spots where the clear ripped up.

To go over what happened again:
I used the blue cleaner (hot rims) always previously no issue loved it. But I was using like a quick detailer, spray on lightly wipe off, then I would spray a tiny bit of water on and wipe it off to hopefully minimize residue on the rim. Not sure if the last step did any benefit of removing residue but it became a habit.

What changed was:
I washed my car. And had a bright idea of following instructions on the bottle, not my wacky quick detailer spray way. So I spray on, let sit for a few seconds, spray off with the hose. I did this with hose under normal pressure (flooding type flow). When I went to dry the wheels with my microfiber I noticed something flaking off. And was like errrrrrr that shouldn;t happen. So I went to my next wheel and the next all had the same issue. It seems to occur most on the bend of the rim, but also there are strange patches in the middle of the lip too.

I will need to modify what I said about the body shop. It turns out that whatever they did must have just been residue or something because with a little elbow grease I was able to reduce the white marks. I used a different brand rim cleaner this time, staying away from the blue bottle until I get this figured out.

I appreciate you putting up the refinishing options.
I contacted a few wheel refurbishing locations and everything is about $150 a rim to re-do.
Rims are $250 new, so I might as well just shell out for new rims instead of fixing refurbishing these.

I am up for the remove the clear coat option, but the rims are a fake 3 piece design (I know, I know). So I am not sure I could do the perfect masking job to mask off the lip perfectly. And I am also unsure what product to use to remove the clear coat, and I am pretty sure something that harsh would likely eat right through the masking tape i would use anyways.

Though I could pitch this to my wife as an opportunity for me to get large rims, I am pretty sure I already know the answer. Plus gotta keep her happy she is currently pregnant with number 2 due in April.

I did not get the chance to call customer support yet, I had a busy day at work yesterday and today is shaping up the same. Maybe this weekend.
Is there a 101 class this weekend? And could I bring my car buy potentially just so you could have a look?

BTW I did just get some last touch detailer spray (first time I used it) and I didn;t have a sprayer so I combine it with a UWWA with about 1/8th fill. I love this stuff.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Sorry, no class this weekend.

Your process of using Aluminum Wheel Cleaner as sort of a mist and wipe product, followed with a spray of water to remove any residue, is not (as you know) the correct way to use this product - but even then we wouldn't expect it to do any damage and, according to you, it didn't. Fine. Cool. So we have to admit to being really puzzled why it would when you used it according to the directions. To anyone else reading this, please understand that All Wheel Cleaner and Chrome Wheel Cleaner should never ever be used this way (and really, Aluminum Wheel Cleaner shouldn't either).

How did you remove the white staining that showed up after the body shop washed the car? If it looked at all like the white staining in the picture of Barry's wheel, and if your applicator turned black as soot in no time, that's just classic aluminum polishing. Fairly straightforward to fix, if a bit messy in the process.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Good point...I too don't suggest anyone use the product the way I do (quick detailer way, spray on, wipe off). It works for me, but i did this process knowing it wasn't the specific way to use the product. I knowingly gambled but I was also getting great cleaning results. Keeps my daily pretty impeccable.

Mike/Meg's- is there a quick detailer like product available for rim cleaning that would suit my process? Could I use quick detailer/last touch to do the job? I don;t want to have to bust out the hose each day to clean my rims. My car care process is pretty much a nightly thing. I like clean shiny things.

Also, any help and guidance on the removal/masking process for clear coat removal would be great.

Ohh almost forgot to answer, how did I remove what the body shop did...
I took a Megs foam applicator, sprayed the applicator with the other companies wheel cleaning product. And tried to be as gentle as I could as to not remove more clear, while also hitting the troubled area. Looks like what came up was more polish residue and a little bit of the clear coat flake. It came off by hand with the little elbow grease. Thats why I don;t think it was so much of a harsh cleaner issue anymore. On close inspection it almost looked like wax that wasn't removed. Applicator became a darker color but I didn;t know if that was the stuff I was removing from the rim, or dust/dirt that happened to be on the rim.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Mike/Meg's- is there a quick detailer like product available for rim cleaning that would suit my process? Could I use quick detailer/last touch to do the job? I don;t want to have to bust out the hose each day to clean my rims. My car care process is pretty much a nightly thing. I like clean shiny things.

Any quick detailer will work just fine, especially if you're doing this on a daily basis. In fact, after you get the wheels nice and clean, hit them with Ultimate Quik Wax and it will make those daily wipe downs even easier. I tend to be as crazy as you are about this sort of thing, and I use UQD or UWWA on my wheels all the time.

Also, any help and guidance on the removal/masking process for clear coat removal would be great.

This is the tricky part and I'm not really an expert on removing clear coat without causing undo damage to the underlying material. A shop that specializes in this sort of thing isn't going to be too worried about scratching the wheels since they would be polishing afterwards anyway.

Ohh almost forgot to answer, how did I remove what the body shop did...
I took a Megs foam applicator, sprayed the applicator with the other companies wheel cleaning product. And tried to be as gentle as I could as to not remove more clear, while also hitting the troubled area. Looks like what came up was more polish residue and a little bit of the clear coat flake. It came off by hand with the little elbow grease. Thats why I don;t think it was so much of a harsh cleaner issue anymore. On close inspection it almost looked like wax that wasn't removed. Applicator became a darker color but I didn;t know if that was the stuff I was removing from the rim, or dust/dirt that happened to be on the rim.

OK, that clears up some things but also brings up another question. You say the clear appears to be flaking off and even if it was badly damaged by a strong acid based cleaner like Chrome Wheel Cleaner, it shouldn't be doing that. An acid wheel cleaner would very badly etch or stain the clear, or it could get under a damaged edge and stain the underlying aluminum. We see this happen from time to time with All Wheel Cleaner when the edge of the clear has been damaged by removal of a wheel weight, and then this little spider web looking stain appears along the edges where the cleaner leached in. But having something, anything, cause the paint to literally flake off? That sounds really strange and honestly, more like a potential manufacturing defect than anything else. Heck, Ford and GM both had this issue with the body paint on their cars in the early 1990's - the color coat would literally flake off the primer, obviously taking the clear with it. It's almost like the primer was anti-primer and the paint wouldn't stick. My wife's '92 Camaro RS had this issue, but it showed up too late to be part of Chevy's warranty repaint on the car - and they repainted a whole bunch of cars back then because of this.

We'd love to see some pix if you get a chance. You might also want to do some searching for similar instances of the clear flaking off this brand/model of wheels.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

Yeah the flaking is what gets me, that happened on the edges of where the clear already had started coming loose. Which the area with the staining happened to be in (the bare raw aluminum). Now that the clear is missing some of the edges of that area would peel up if hit too hard, but minimally. I am as puzzled as you guys because though I have used the product in a weird way it occurred when used by the book. And on all 4 rims. Rim dealer warrenty is 60 days on finish (with a ton of rules to abide by) a little exaggerated but basically if you install them your finish warranty is void. Again I am placing blame no where just want to know what happened which is down to 1 thing pretty much which is a weak clear from the rim manufacturer. Looks like a future trip to have wheels refinished is in place because the removal doesn;t sound to DIY friendly.

Is Dodge GM? I remember a few people that had Dodge Neons with large sections of missing paint all attributed to the issue you mention. What a bad time for car paint.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

I don't have the ability to host, can I send them to someone to have displayed?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

No, Dodge is Chrysler Corp. but during that time period all the domestic manufacturing facilities were transition to some new paint technologies, and it didn't always work out so well.

Back to your wheels - since it seems that the clear might have been compromised along the edges in some places, it could also be coincidental that the real lifting happened when you used the product "correctly". If it was compromised at all, it was only going to get worse with time and probably would have started peeling even if you had stayed with your non-traditional process. And of course, once the clear is missing from any area, that area will stain if hit with any sort of even moderately aggressive cleaner.

[s word]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

My previous post did not come out completely. It had a lot more to it.

I don;t have ability to host the photos but I do have a couple of each different wheel and issue type. It does look like the body shop used harsher cleaner on a few of the rims still so what I took off must have been polish that they tried to correct the problem with unsuccessfully. The photos make the rims look bad because of lighting but to the bare eye the rims aren't horrible.

Would a product like the dynacone polisher (kit) be a wise move at this point? I know it may flake off a little bit more of the clear coat in the process. But I feel like the bare aluminum is not polished therefore that is creating the strange look on the rims, not just that the clear is missing. Not that I am trying to do this on a budget but $30 sounds better than $600 (refurbishing).

I am going to have to agree with you after further research that whatever I did "correctly" progressed the issue faster, but did not create the situation. Not really certain what caused it...manufacturer of rims does not have a length warranty on the finish. I do realize that finish on rims can be compromised by many things so that short warranty is understandable but also does me no favor. I am leading myself down the dynacone kit path for correction. Would post before and after pictures of course if I do, but I may need someones help with the photo hosting.

Also I will be in OC for an appointment in later afternoon of Weds...If anyone from Megs or anyone else on here is down there and wants to see the issue I am more than happy to show them.

[Rocksteady-Rebel]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

I has the ESM similar to the LM BBS Wheels for a while. Got them cheap due to the CC coming off (might be a common issue).

Anyways I got some Aircraft Paint remover and Polished the bare metal. They are High Maintenance but looked so sexy on my E36.

Just my .02 here

[Rocksteady-Rebel]

Re: Hot Rims- Aluminum stripping clear coat

I has the ESM similar to the LM BBS Wheels for a while. Got them cheap due to the CC coming off (might be a common issue).

Anyways I got some Aircraft Paint remover and Polished the bare metal. They are High Maintenance but looked so sexy on my E36.

Just my .02 here