Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

[CBLW]

So, after reading a bunch of positive posts about Scratch X, I decided to try and make a go of it pretty hardcore this afternoon on a couple of very light door scratches on my BMW 135i (black sapphire metallic, for point of reference).

Bad. Bad. Bad.

While the original scratches are definitely less noticeable now then they were when I started, applying strong pressure using a brand new, super clean, high quality microfiber resulted in a lot of light surface swirling and additional scratches. I’m really bummed.

I probably wouldn't’t care if this wasn’t a BRAND new car, but being that it is, and that it’s black, I’m thinking about just sucking it up and taking it in to be professionally buffed. I doubt that anything less than perfect again is going to make me happy, and I REALLY doubt that any other over the counter product is going to be able to repair even this minor scratching. Anyway, before I do what you all know that I’m going to do and ask the loyal forum readers for any kind assistance that they might be able to offer, I’d honestly just like to express my pissed off two cents on the situation, regardless. Hey, that’s what forums are for, right??

This is the thing that bothers me the most about products like Scratch X: In the past, I’ve used it on small scratches in the paintwork of older cars, and as long as a cars weren’t BRAND new, and had actually been around the block a few times, then fine, I’ll admit, Scratch X improved the situation. When dealing with absolutely perfect paintwork, however, nah… I fail to see the value. No way. There’s no QUESTION that my beautiful new car didn’t have these tiny scratches everywhere it’s been applied prior to using the Scratch X, and now it does (even IF the larger scratches have been diminished.

I think that Megs and other companies like it basically think, “No normal human being is ever going to stare at the paintwork after applying this stuff and care about almost invisible scratches, all that matters is that the big ones have been reduced.” See, I call B.S. on that. I’m a car guy, I love my car, and it’s brand freakin’ new. I don’t want scratches, ANY of them!! Now I don’t know what the deal is. Maybe my car’s paint is an especially scratch prone, tricky color. Maybe there’s some secret formula for swirling my hand in JUST the right direction to undo some of the damage. MAYBE someone will prove me completely wrong about all of this, but I’m disappointed because, I doubt it, and even if they do… it shouldn’t BE this difficult. And if it is, Megs should make that MUCH more clear.

Now before ask for your help, let me clarify: Even with these irritating surface scratches, if the car were ANYTHING but brand spanking new, neither I, nor I'm sure any of you guys, would look at it and think that there was absolutely anything at all worth worrying about. The only reason these scratches stick out is because the car is still in PERFECT condition, so i can see even the most MINOR of flaws. That's why I don't want to polish, or use other products -- because what I'm saying is, the car is technically perfect as is, it's only an anal retentive first month owner (like myself) who would be reacting this way.

FYI for anyone interested... last night, after reading through some more posts over in the Megs forums, I decided to have another go at the affected area with a terry cloth (because I was willing to try anything).

The terry cloth made things much, much worse. I don't know what to say, maybe it's my color, maybe it's just me, but this stuff is quickly destroying my car and I'm pissed.

I'm applying a LOT of pressure, and getting a bunch of little scratches with each pass I make. I'm rubbing up and down, quickly, and I'm doing it for about a minute to two minutes after I've rubbed the stuff in (so maybe three to four minutes for each pass total). Can someone PLEASE help me? How long should I be rubbing? What direction? How much pressure? (please CLEARLY explain!!) Should I rub once I can’t even see the product anymore??

Again, keep in mind, the car looks FINE to the naked eye. But when I'm working with the stuff, I can clearly see the scratches being made... ugh... so irritating. So unless Megs is suggesting that I LITERALLY use so much elbow grease that I act as if I'm trying to make a hole in the car, I see no possible way that I've been doing this wrong.

HELP. PLEASE.

[Rando Cammando]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Use a foam applicator pad and use it the same way and see if that works when you use the terry cloth it has alot of bite and will put in thats why you follow up the the foam to smooth it all out

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Hi CBLW,

Give me a moment to read through your posts and see what I can do to type up a reply that will help you to recover from what's already taken place.

It would be so much easier to show you in person how to work a product like ScratchX in your application versus using a keyboard.

Also, it looks like you typed your message up in Microsoft Word and then copied and pasted it into your message box on our forum. Behind the scenes MS Word adds code that you don't see but our Spam Software picked up on and placed your two posts into Moderation, that's whey there was a delay in it showing up on our forum. There were also two posts that seemed similar so deleted one of them as it was just a duplicate.

So please have some patience and allow me to see if we can see you through to success with your car's finish.

[erobertson]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

While I understand your frustration, ScratchX can do amazing things when working by hand. Couple of thoughts:

1) make sure the area is reasonably clean to start (if your dragging dirt and bugs around that certainly can scratch the paint)

2) Work smaller areas and try the foam pad as suggested. I've used new make-up sponges from the wife when trying to blend tiny flaws out.

3) May need to lighten up on "the passion" and try to work the area longer so that the abrasives break down and you get more of the polishing effect.

4) Lightly spot wax the area with a cleaner/wax to provide protection and blend in the repair with surrounding area. The wax will continue to lightly polish and help fill in minor defects.

Good luck, being somewhat obsessive about our vehicles can certainly understand where your at. Look at it this way; you've got the first scuff of what unfortunately will be many more to come.

[funkdoktor]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

is the area your working on clean? any dirt particles that gets traped into your terry cloth will swirl around making swirls as you go along. especially when you say your using "a lot" of pressure. also depending on the quality of the terry your using your terrys might be the actual culprit in this matter. i've never had a problem with scratch x, new or old paint. try using a microfiber towel intstead of terry cuz megs themselves say they recommend microfiber over terry. personally i use foam applicaters when using scratch x and i've never had problems with it. at most it wouldn't take out the scratch but never instill them.

[Lydia]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Just a couple things I thought of. First, terry cloth is definately a big no-no if you are having problems with very light scratches. Terry cloth is quite a bit more aggressive than microfiber towels. Second, maybe switch back to the microfiber cloth again and try working ScratchX in with a lot of passion at first, but then lighten up on the pressure somewhat and continue to rub it in until it has broken down completely. I'm guessing you have very scratch sensitive paint, and since it's black it shows marring and scratches very well. The solution to get rid of your fine scratches is use a less aggressive technique, not one that's more aggressive.

FWIW when used properly, any time I've used ScratchX it has been able to remove minor scratches without instilling any marring or very fine scratches. And trust me on that one; I look very closely at the paint under several different lightings (flourescent, sunlight, dual zenon, incandescent).

[Jokeman]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

A few thoughts for you.

First, did you wash the car before using the scratchX? Also, did you clay the affected area? One problem could be if there are debris on or embedded in the paint they coming loose and scratching.

Also, when you said you rubbed for 3 to 4 minutes, was the product dry? I would try to keep the product wet. For example, try buffiing for 30 seconds, stop, wipe away the product then if need be do the same again for 30 seconds. I honestly forget the working time of ScratchX since it has been a while since Ive used it so I might be a little off there.

Those are just my $.02.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

While the original scratches are definitely less noticeable now then they were when I started, applying strong pressure using a brand new, super clean, high quality microfiber resulted in a lot of light surface swirling and additional scratches. I’m really bummed.

First, polishing paint is more of an art form than it is a simple mechanical process. Modern clear coat finishes tend to be harder than traditional singel stage paints yet they still scratch easily, that's where things get tricky and that's where the art form of polishing paint comes into play.

Sometimes you do need to rub hard or "put some passion behind the pad" as we say here on the forum, but sometimes you need to work gently, like you were applying a skin lotion to your face. You match your technique or pressure to the defect your trying to remove but also to the condition of the finish you're working on. That is, as you've stated, the finish on this car is brand new and in excellent condition except where you had some door scratches, so that means ANY light scratching is going to show up to your eyes. Thus while you might need to start out using some pressure to remove enough paint surrounding the scratches you're trying to remove because that's how you remove a scratch, as you level the surface out then you must quit using as much pressure and instead use a more gentle technique/pressure to remove any scratches your presusre and your choice of application materila is putting in.

Hang on...

I’d honestly just like to express my pissed off two cents on the situation, regardless. Hey, that’s what forums are for, right??

This is the thing that bothers me the most about products like Scratch X: In the past, I’ve used it on small scratches in the paintwork of older cars, and as long as a cars weren’t BRAND new, and had actually been around the block a few times, then fine, I’ll admit, Scratch X improved the situation. When dealing with absolutely perfect paintwork, however, nah… I fail to see the value. No way. There’s no QUESTION that my beautiful new car didn’t have these tiny scratches everywhere it’s been applied prior to using the Scratch X, and now it does (even IF the larger scratches have been diminished.

I think that Megs and other companies like it basically think, “No normal human being is ever going to stare at the paintwork after applying this stuff and care about almost invisible scratches, all that matters is that the big ones have been reduced.” See, I call B.S. on that. I’m a car guy, I love my car, and it’s brand freakin’ new. I don’t want scratches, ANY of them!! Now I don’t know what the deal is. Maybe my car’s paint is an especially scratch prone, tricky color. Maybe there’s some secret formula for swirling my hand in JUST the right direction to undo some of the damage. MAYBE someone will prove me completely wrong about all of this, but I’m disappointed because, I doubt it, and even if they do… it shouldn’t BE this difficult. And if it is, Megs should make that MUCH more clear.

FYI for anyone interested... last night, after reading through some more posts over in the Megs forums, I decided to have another go at the affected area with a terry cloth (because I was willing to try anything).

The terry cloth made things much, much worse. I don't know what to say, maybe it's my color, maybe it's just me, but this stuff is quickly destroying my car and I'm pissed.

I'm applying a LOT of pressure, and getting a bunch of little scratches with each pass I make. I'm rubbing up and down, quickly, and I'm doing it for about a minute to two minutes after I've rubbed the stuff in (so maybe three to four minutes for each pass total). Can someone PLEASE help me? How long should I be rubbing? What direction? How much pressure? (please CLEARLY explain!!) Should I rub once I can’t even see the product anymore??

Again, keep in mind, the car looks FINE to the naked eye. But when I'm working with the stuff, I can clearly see the scratches being made... ugh... so irritating. So unless Megs is suggesting that I LITERALLY use so much elbow grease that I act as if I'm trying to make a hole in the car, I see no possible way that I've been doing this wrong.

HELP. PLEASE.

[Orca]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Hang in there, pal - read the good advice already posted and read it carefully. The most obvious thing to do is stop using the microfibre - the fibres give a good cut and the marring you are seeing is from the cloth. Sometimes you need more bite and microfibre is just right, but most of the time a round foam pad is just what you want. Apply a little blob to the top of the pad where the tips of your fingers will be on the other side and rub it back and forth, slowly at first and then quicker and more firmly as the product starts to work out.

Mike (Phillips) - Where's that excellent video demonstrating the ScratchX technique? You know ... the one with the green Benz. Is that you in the video, BTW?

I had "beginners' block" with this product and revisited after watching the video, it clicked. I think the video was showing off how to use the version 1 product. If it says "works with a DA" or something on the tube, it's the version 2 product AFAIK - one of the Meg's guys can confirm. Either way, try the foam pad and go lightly, increasing speed and pressure as you need.

Best of luck. I know it sounds corny, but it's all down to technique - as said above, it's really an art-form.

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Do not discount the fact that besides using a terrycloth to apply which probably too harsh for your paint. Your car could probably use a good claying. Yes I know its a month old. That will not preclude the fact that it probably has rail dust and other bonded contaminants on the surface. These could be contributing factors. Good luck.

[the other pc]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

CBLW,

I appreciate that your situation is terribly frustrating. I do have very high confidence that with the help of the gang here you’ll be able to take care of the problem.

The advice given so far is excellent so I have nothing to add for getting the job done.

I would like to address a couple of your more generalized concerns.

...This is the thing that bothers me the most about products like Scratch X: In the past, I’ve used it on small scratches in the paintwork of older cars, and as long as a cars weren’t BRAND new, and had actually been around the block a few times, then fine, I’ll admit, Scratch X improved the situation. When dealing with absolutely perfect paintwork, however, nah… I fail to see the value. ...

I have used ScratchX on brand new cars with and achieved flawless results. Every finish is different and sometimes adjustments have to be made to technique and/or applicator but ScratchX come as close to a “universally safe” product as I can imagine.

...I think that Megs and other companies like it basically think, “No normal human being is ever going to stare at the paintwork after applying this stuff and care about almost invisible scratches, all that matters is that the big ones have been reduced.” ...

I don’t doubt that other some companies do think that way. I can assure you that Meguiar’s Does Not. Meguiar’s is devoted to achieving the best results possible.

Ever wonder how it’s possible for any brand new car to have such a good finish in the first place? It’s doesn’t occur by magic. It happens because a process in the factory made it that way. Want to know who comes up with those processes? It’s people like Meguiar’s!

Meguiar’s was in car factories for half a century before they ever made any consumer products and they’re still there today. Car makers use Megiuar’s products on the factory floor and sent their people to Meguiar’s for training on how to get finishes right. Meguiar’s teams also go out and do training in the factories.

Car manufacturers and paint manufacturers work together with Meguiar’s to develop products and processes for their factories and for the field.

So if you like how your brand new finish looked to start with there’s a good chance it’s thanks to Meguiar’s and their partnership with the factories.



PC.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

I know Mike Phillips is going to be chiming in further here but he's getting ready for a double extreme makeover at tonight's Open Garage Session so he's a bit busy at the moment.

It should be noted that ScratchX itself will not scratch paint - it's far too mild a cleaner to do so. What can mar the paint, CBLW, and you've already proven this to yourself, is the applicator being used with it. You got some fine marring with the microfiber, and it got worse with terry cloth. Much worse, by your own admission. Had you asked one of us before trying the terry cloth we would have strongly advised you not to use terry because we could all but guarantee you'd see a noticeable increase in the marring.

What you need to use is a foam applicator pad like the one shown below:



These are the same applicators we supply with NXT Tech Wax, Gold Class Wax, etc. Using this with ScratchX will remove the scratches inflicted by the other applicators you were using. You can use pretty serious elbow grease with this pad/product combination and still not mar the paint.

Trust us when we say you aren't the only one who's this picky about their paint. Not even close. Our products have been used for years to prep both class winning and best of show winning cars at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance show for many, many years. Our products are trusted to prep these multi-million dollar, extremely rare pieces of rolling art.

[retrofinisher]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

"I think that Megs and other companies like it basically think, “No normal human being is ever going to stare at the paintwork after applying this stuff and care about almost invisible scratches, all that matters is that the big ones have been reduced.” See, I call B.S. on that."

sounds like your're preaching to the wrong group here? If it was mine-

• I'd take it down to a good detail shop or BMW dealer and have them machine polish it out.

How big was the area you worked on? 12inx 12inches or the whole door?

Technique has to match the "tool" and as for a company that has a line of polishes that primarily focus on micron swirls and halo- Meguiars literally sweats the small stuff to an art form.

Black is often said to be the most challenging of all colors-

If not a detail shop then read on and get the right pads, cleaners and patient technique(s)

Good luck, polish on

[VonLego]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Should be an easy fix once you get this settled. Good luck dude!

Think of it this way... once you learn to do it... You can do it again! Paint correction (in my oppion) is an imparative life skill to any car lover!

[CBLW]

Re: Scratch X Is Killing My New Car. HELP.

Woweeeee you people are NICE! I went on an absolute tirade and absolutely EVERYONE tried to help me out in spite of it. I mean, not even ONE nasty response! I am super, super impressed. Thank you. OK, now with that having been said, I owe some major, major apologies to you folks. I was obviously super pissed off yesterday about the situation, and I lost my cool because I was beyond hopeless -- but I have GOOD NEWS to share.

I read everyone's advice VERY VERY carefully, calmed the heck down, and went back at my car yesterday evening with a FOAM APPLICATOR pad, and a LOT of patience. I'm not going to lie, the results are not perfect (I plan on heading out again tonight once my arms recovers a bit), but they're close (from what I've seen in different lightings thus far), and I've almost COMPLETELY undone the damage that I did with that durrrn terry cloth towel (those things should be outlawed!!). The bonus, of course, is that I'm now feeling REALLY good about having done this work myself vs. with a machine, and having learned a new skill in the process!

Anyway, for the sake of whoever comes next to the ScratchX game, I wanted to provide this honest follow-up to my previous post, because if I'm going to bash a company, then I'm also sure as heck going to be up front about it when I end up being wrong.

Again, thank you to everyone who offered me advice, I really appreciate it. Hopefully with another day's work or so, my baby will be back to looking like new once more! I have a BUNCH of additional questions for you kind folks that I'm going to post in list form below here, but I do want to make one more point about my initial feelings regarding this subject.

While I'm incredibly grateful for the help from you all, and equally impressed that some folks from Megs even bothered to post on my thread, I WILL say, that as an irritated consumer, I wasn't initially wrong about one thing: The ScratchX directions need to be MUCH clearer.

I mean, look at the amount of energy that went into correcting this problem that I had (even ADMITTING to my own stupidity in the matter). If someone had made a point of including something in writing on the bottle to the effect of "Use EXCLUSIVELY with foam applicators (warning: other forms of application may mare paint surfaces), use ample force at first, then buff remaining scratches with less fierce, yet consistant polishing," that's seriously all it would have taken for me. Just food for thought for the folks over at Megs.

Now, on to my NEW questions... haha:

1. After applying the ScratchX yesterday evening, I was LITERALLY so overcome by the results that I absolutely could NOT bring myself to wipe the surface with a microfiber or terry cloth (as recommended by the Megs bottle). The idea of using one of those two things again on my beautiful, newly restored paint surface (even just for the purpose of removing the ScratchX) was enough to send me into convulsions.

So basically, I turned to a cleaner portion on the foam applicator, and just used that to wipe up the ScratchX a bit. So the question is, was that very bad? Is there a danger to not REALLY scrubbing the ScratchX off? There doesn't appear to be any hazing or discoloration of the area... am I OK, or did I really screw up by not wiping off the ScratchX thoroughly with a cloth?

Likewise, if you should apply ScratchX, and somehow manage to miss a tiny clump of it while wiping up and it dries out on your car, will your car be damaged, or will the ScratchX eventually just come loose in the rain and washes that follow?

2. Is this fix permanent? Am I going to drive through 3 thunderstorms and then see the scratches again, or did I really polish them out? Convince me please. lol

3. Color of area treated vs color of rest of car: Once I've really washed the car thoroughly again, am I going to see any color differential between the newly brought out paint finish vs. the untouched rest of the car? I figure clear coat is clear coat, no matter what layer, but I just want to make certain. It would be horrible to have the difference actually SHOW up.

4. Can I use the applicator pad again, or is that it? It still has clean areas -- thoughts?

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE.