Lets talk about M105

[Tuck91]

Re: Lets talk about M105

I can understand having defect removal on the brain! Mainly just wanted to see if my approach was on track. I appreciate your reply.

I too would like to hear more from experienced polishers about how, when and why they switch from what to what given certain paints, defects, etc.
If it were only that easy. Something tells me that there will never be a do this and if that doesn't work, then do this and it'll be great! manual. Too many variables, types of paint, varying softness/hardness...Seems the only thing that is constant is that most cars have a lot of defects from neglect or improper care and I need to make them all perfect...NOW!

i agree and get what your saying.

[rgcurtis]

Re: Lets talk about M105

I just ordered the G110 and M105 & M205 most of my cars have little swirls and scratches. Based on the thread above should I use M205 w/ the yellow pad first then UC, then wax cleaner by hand, then NXT 2.0 w/ the black finishing pad? I don't want to screw up and get into something I can't get out of.

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Based on the thread above should I use M205 w/ the yellow pad first then UC, then wax cleaner by hand, then NXT 2.0 w/ the black finishing pad? I don't want to screw up and get into something I can't get out of.

You have the abrasiveness and aggresivity of the products backwards...Ultimate Compound is more abrasive than M205. You would start with M205 as it's the least aggresive approach and if it doesn't leave the finish you desire step it up to Ultimate Compound or M105. You can increase the gloss and remove any induced damage by following the polishing pad/compound step with a pass of M205/finishing pad.

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

You can increase the gloss and remove any induced damage by following the polishing pad/compound step with a pass of M205/finishing pad.

I'm aware that m205 is called the "ultra finishing polish", but what do you think of m205 w/ a polishing pad?
Is that too aggressive for an almost-finishing step? After this, I'd probably use #7 w/ finishing pad followed by DC1 (don't know if DC1 is useless at this point),then NXT.

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

I'm aware that m205 is called the "ultra finishing polish", but what do you think of m205 w/ a polishing pad?
Is that too aggressive for an almost-finishing step? After this, I'd probably use #7 w/ finishing pad followed by DC1 (don't know if DC1 is useless at this point),then NXT.

Sounds like a lot of extra steps but every paint is different as is its condition so it might be warranted in your case. I have used M205 with an LC CCS White and CCS Green pad as a one-step and it finished LSP-ready so I don't think it's too abrasive or aggressive at all for your intended purpose. Inspect after this step and you might be surprised to see not much else is needed.

I've been able to acheive practically LSP-ready results with M105 and Ultimate Compound and usually use the M205 to chase any induced marring and burnish to a high gloss before LSP application. When dealing with some of the harder clearcoats (i.e. Mercedes CeramiClear or Corvette clear) it's a great middle-of-the-road step in abrasiveness. Those finishes tend to be exceptionally hard and at the same time very scratch-sensitive. As such, any pad/product combo strong enough to get out all defects usually imparts induced damage (marring) on the surface. M205 with a polishing pad works well here. If additional gloss enhancement or final finishing is required, then M205 with a finishing pad usually does the trick. Dial down the process in a test area first and see what works...

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Awesome; thanks for the advice Bounty :thumb:. Good to know that most finishes are often LSP-ready after m205. I guess sometimes I forget that's the case because m205 is near the middle in the order of aggressiveness list, which makes me think that its abrasiveness will require an app of a milder polish, but such apparently isn't the case very often.

I guess those products below m205 in the general aggressiveness scale are drastically milder, which suggests the scale is somewhat exponential (is that the proper term?), rather than totally linear. (If it were linear, seeing as m205 is pretty much in the middle, why not finish things out with one of the many milder polishes after m205!...See my thinking?)

Sorry to take things on a tangent.

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Awesome; thanks for the advice Bounty :thumb:. Good to know that most finishes are often LSP-ready after m205. I guess sometimes I forget that's the case because m205 is near the middle in the order of aggressiveness list, which makes me think that its abrasiveness will require an app of a milder polish, but such apparently isn't the case very often.

I've used other polishing systems like Wolfgang, Menzerna, 3M, and Poor Boys and find that most differ from M205 in that the combination of defect removal power and finsishing characteristics require two distinct products where M205 is as close to a true one-step polishing product as you'll probably find. Others cut more while others finish slightly better but few do both as well as M205.

I guess those products below m205 in the general aggressiveness scale are drastically milder, which suggests the scale is somewhat exponential (is that the proper term?), rather than totally linear. (If it were linear, seeing as m205 is pretty much in the middle, why not finish things out with one of the many milder polishes after m205!...See my thinking?)

Sorry to take things on a tangent.

No actually, questions like this help raise general awareness and knowledge levels for all of us! I wouldn't say the aggressivity scale for Meguiar's products is truly exponential. Remember when comparing products on the scale that they contain differing abrasive technology and thus display different use characteristics and subsequent results. M205 is a bit of an enigma in that it seems to cut more than its "4" rating yet also finishes like a product with much less bite. M105, in addition, cuts similar to Menz Power Gloss and the heavy 3M Compound but finishes in a way the other two could never acheive. Meguiar's did an excellent job with this combo and when utilized with a wide variety of mechanically abrasive pads can tackle most jobs easily as they can be custom tailored (via speed, presure, KBM, pad choice, etc.) to adapt to most situations...

[Nappers]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Can't wait to try it.....too broke to get it though with M83/M80 in the stable!

[rgcurtis]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Bounty, Thanks. I understand just to clarify, here is the process I will start with...
1. Wash & dry
2. M205 w/ yellow
3. Meg's wax cleaner by hand
4. NXT 2.0 w/ black finishing pad

Does this sound like a good plan? Not trying to beat a dead horse....just a lot of varying opinion throughout the thread.

[Tuck91]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Bounty, Thanks. I understand just to clarify, here is the process I will start with...
1. Wash & dry
2. M205 w/ yellow
3. Meg's wax cleaner by hand
4. NXT 2.0 w/ black finishing pad

Does this sound like a good plan? Not trying to beat a dead horse....just a lot of varying opinion throughout the thread.

you may not need to use the Cleaner Wax and if your car needs claying you could do that also.

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Bounty, Thanks. I understand just to clarify, here is the process I will start with...
1. Wash & dry
2. M205 w/ yellow
3. Meg's wax cleaner by hand
4. NXT 2.0 w/ black finishing pad

Does this sound like a good plan? Not trying to beat a dead horse....just a lot of varying opinion throughout the thread.

Ok, let's set you up with a process....

1. wash and dry the entire vehicle

2. clay the entire vehicle with your choice of lube

3. pick a test spot on the vehicle...likely trunk or hood

4. tape off the area and make a pass with your first combo...in this case M205/polishing pad

5. If this gets you the results you want for defect removal, move on. If not step up the aggresivity and go polishing pad/UC or polishing pad/M105 with IPA wipedowns in between steps. Once all the defects are removed move on to a less aggressive product to remove any induced damage (marring) from the defect removal step. If there isn't any induced damage, move directly to the M205/finishing pad. Once you're satisfied with the finish you've determined your process an can repeat over the entire car.

6. Final IPA wipedown to remove all polishing oils and lubricants as well as any product residue from the surface leaving you a clean, fully prepped surface for final application of LSP.

7. Apply your Meg's cleaner if you think it's necessary but since NXT 2.0 does contain cleaners and would remove most waxes beneath it I'd rather just go with two thin coats of NXT spaced a day apart to cure.

Good luck and come back with pics!!

[rgcurtis]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Got it....your are so helpful. I will attempt pics better than the Aspen pics.

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Thanks again for the info, Bounty. I was really wondering where a cleaner wax would come in (if at all) in a detail session that involves paint correction. Seems like there isn't really a place for it here .
Guess I'll save my DC1 for normal bi-monthly details, when I'm not doing corrective work w/ the DA.

1) Question; I had no idea (referring to step #6 you listed) that people actually did full IPA wipedowns. I really had no clue that people did this. Is this common?

I was just going to do my corrective work, and after the m205/FP & MF gentle handbuffing, I'd probably go straight to some hand-applied #7 (a step I may leave out b/c it could be pointless), MF buff that out, then straight to 2 thin coats of NXT.
Note that no IPA wipedowns would be included.

2)What do you think? I really can't see myself wiping down my car with any amount of IPA, even if professionals use it. It'd make me feel like I was robbing the paint of the oils or residual goodiness left behind by the m205 & #7.

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Thanks again for the info, Bounty. I was really wondering where a cleaner wax would come in (if at all) in a detail session that involves paint correction. Seems like there isn't really a place for it here .
Guess I'll save my DC1 for normal bi-monthly details, when I'm not doing corrective work w/ the DA.

Cleaner waxes definitely have their place I just don't really use them during full corrections. If I've just done a two or three step polish the fresh clear doesn't really need it in my opinion but some people do use it as an LSP so you could go that route. Looks really good for the price on single-stage paints if that matters to you and does a good job with mildly oxidized surfaces on cars you won't be polishing.

1) Question; I had no idea (referring to step #6 you listed) that people actually did full IPA wipedowns. I really had no clue that people did this. Is this common?

It is during heavy polishing steps. I consider it essential after your defect removal buffing step to completely rid the surface of oils, lubricants, product dust etc. so that you can accurately gauge what you've done and reapply product if necessary or change to a more aggressive step.

I was just going to do my corrective work, and after the m205/FP & MF gentle handbuffing, I'd probably go straight to some hand-applied #7 (a step I may leave out b/c it could be pointless), MF buff that out, then straight to 2 thin coats of NXT.
Note that no IPA wipedowns would be included.

What do you think? I really can't see myself wiping down my car with any amount of IPA, even if professionals use it. It'd make me feel like I was robbing the paint of the oils or residual goodiness left behind by the m205 & #7.

Like I said, after the defect removal phase, the IPA wipedown (I've seen people use QD and even water here but I don't find it as effective) is almost mandatory to me. After your final burnishing/jeweling step you could leave it out as these products do tend to have oils and fillers which enrich the gloss factor and hide some very minor defects. I just like to see the true paint condition before final LSP application.

As for the Meg's #7, be careful when going straight to wax/sealant. It has a sometimes funky removal process which creates a "film build layer" on the surface similar to dairy product curing (milk or pudding). You need to remove this and then wait for it to build again before a final wipedown. Some people allow for up to three or four such curing and wiping periods over the course of 12 hours. If you go straight to a wax or sealant like NXT after the initial wipedown of #7 you run the risk of bonding and drying issues with the NXT (smearing or hazing). Doesn't always happen but has to me and others so something to watch for. The higher gloss and jetting factor of the #7 only lasts a couple of washes at most so I'm not a big proponent of its use except on show days, auctions, sales, etc. where short-term looks take precedence.

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Awesome! Glad to hear from your personal experience :thumb:. I hadn't any idea that #7 could pose the aforementioned issues with regard to immediate application of NXT thereafter. Not sure if I'll continue its usage or not when detailing...Fortunately I've had no problems with it whatsoever and had outstanding results after applying 2 light coats of NXT afterward using it .
However, I messed up the beautiful results by applying Father's Reflections TopCoat, which reduced the depth and darkness of my metallic grey paint that NXT produced...heh.

On another note, I might give the IPA wipedown a try. I see where IPA is useful, when you really want to expose those remaining defects that may be masked by the resuidual oils or gloss from previous applications of product. I don't think I have the heart to do that! I might as well buy a Brinkmann, too! (I will). I'll search for some threads RE the IPA dilution etc unless you care to talk more about its usage! I think I need a warning for taking this thread so far off topic haha.