Lets talk about M105

[Tuck91]

The new D.A version M105 has been out for a little while know and as we know, plenty of folks have gotten their hands on it and used it. M105 has made the D.A more powerful in a way. And the best thing about it now is that its little brother M205 makes one great combo for use by the D.A and even the rotary.

Meguiars states that we should "Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

That said, should we be recommending to others that are looking to remove swirls and scratches out of their car's finish to just use the M105/M205 combo? there have been a few times where I have read posts that state starting with this combo

But what I am confused on is that the new SMAT products do not need to be broken down and you can stop anytime in the buffing cycle and DAT products are different and need to be broken down right?

What else is confusing to me is "using the least aggressive product to get the job done method" and then SMAT products such as M105 throw an axe at that in a way since you can stop anytime in the buffing cycle which means stop removing paint and not have to bufff anymore

I am by no means a Professional in detailing but this was just something that was confusing to me.

I hope I dont confuse anyone that reads this but this was an area of detailing that didnt make 100% sense to me.

Hopefully some of the Pros like Mike Phillips, Nick Chapman, Tim Lingor etc could chime in. and others feel free to chime in on what you think also, hopefully this will be a good discussion.

Thanks again guys

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

The new D.A version M105 has been out for a little while know and as we know, plenty of folks have gotten their hands on it and used it. M105 has made the D.A more powerful in a way. And the best thing about it now is that its little brother M205 makes one great combo for use by the D.A and even the rotary.

Yup...wonderful pair of products that cover a wide range of defects and techniques.

Meguiars states that we should "Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

Also true but remember it's probably geared more towards those with little or no experience to prevent them from getting into something that they are unwilling or unable to get out of. If someone reads online that a wool pad and rotary can remove swirls and does this and creates micromarring they need to be prepared to remove the induced damage. Starting out with a mild product and working your way up helps to dial down the process to the least aggressive pad/product combo required to do the job. It's easier to keep removing paint than put it back on...

That said, should we be recommending to others that are looking to remove swirls and scratches out of their car's finish to just use the M105/M205 combo? there have been a few times where I have read posts that state starting with this combo

The thing to remember is that you have a wide range of knowledge and experiences on any forum and MOL is no exception. A lot of suggestions from professional or highly experienced detailers tend to be based on product/pad/machine usage on many vehicles and many different types of paint. If you're starting out, stick to the official advice.

But what I am confused on is that the new SMAT products do not need to be broken down and you can stop anytime in the buffing cycle and DAT products are different and need to be broken down right?

Basically. The DAT products have abrasives suspended in lubricants and need to be worked properly to be completely broken down and uniformly finish the surface. So you start out fairly aggressive to remove defects and as the abrasives diminsh they polish out the paint. The SMAT products have a linear abrasive aggresivity.

What else is confusing to me is "using the least aggressive product to get the job done method" and then SMAT products such as M105 throw an axe at that in a way since you can stop anytime in the buffing cycle which means stop removing paint and not have to bufff anymore

Yes, you can stop anytime but the "least aggressive" philosophy does apply as M105 can leave induced damage (micromarring) and thus require a follow up pass with a less aggressive pad/product when something not as high on the agressivity scale (like M205) could have done the job and finished LSP ready. A lot of experience in finishing paint has left me with an eye for where I should start but I still experiment lightly during my initial paint assessment and testing areas to insure I have the proper process down as every paint is different!

I am by no means a Professional in detailing but this was just something that was confusing to me.

I hope I dont confuse anyone that reads this but this was an area of detailing that didnt make 100% sense to me.

There are no dumb or silly questions only stupid answers...

[Tuck91]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Thanks Bounty,sorry for making you type so much, lol.

[PorscheGuy997]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Here is my take on M105:

Is M105 overused and recommended too much? Nope.

In the past, we had to use some very aggressive products to get the job done. For example, heavy compounds and a wool pad were often used to remove the bad swirls. Now, I can accomplish the same thing by using M105 and a polishing pad. That is definitely less aggressive.

Instead of making multiple passes with a diminishing abrasive product, we can make one pass with a non-diminishing abrasive product. The non-diminishing abrasive product save time. I can go from M105 on a wool pad to M205 and a polishing or finishing pad before applying the protectant. The procedure in the past was to compound with a wool pad, step down to a less aggressive product, and then use another less aggressive product to refine the finish. Now, we can eliminate a step and use a less aggressive method.

The abrasives used by M105, M205, M86, D151, ScratchX 2.0, SwirlX, and Ultimate Compound are very uniform. This means that you will have more consistent cutting and a finer finish.

When you use a non-diminishing abrasive product on the DA, you are utilizing an even safer method of correcting defects.

[Hemin8r]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Here is my take on M105:

Is M105 overused and recommended too much? Nope.

In the past, we had to use some very aggressive products to get the job done. For example, heavy compounds and a wool pad were often used to remove the bad swirls. Now, I can accomplish the same thing by using M105 and a polishing pad. That is definitely less aggressive.

Instead of making multiple passes with a diminishing abrasive product, we can make one pass with a non-diminishing abrasive product. The non-diminishing abrasive product save time. I can go from M105 on a wool pad to M205 and a polishing or finishing pad before applying the protectant. The procedure in the past was to compound with a wool pad, step down to a less aggressive product, and then use another less aggressive product to refine the finish. Now, we can eliminate a step and use a less aggressive method.

The abrasives used by M105, M205, M86, D151, ScratchX 2.0, SwirlX, and Ultimate Compound are very uniform. This means that you will have more consistent cutting and a finer finish.

When you use a non-diminishing abrasive product on the DA, you are utilizing an even safer method of correcting defects.

Very well explained Chris!
You too Bounty!

[Bunky]

Re: Lets talk about M105

What would the best product be that has a middle agressiveness between 105 and 205? SwirlX?

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

What would the best product be that has a middle agressiveness between 105 and 205? SwirlX?

I like Ultimate Compound in between M105 and M205...has nice corrective ability and finishes LSP-ready often.

[yanks_178]

Re: Lets talk about M105

I use both Ultimate Compound and 105.. I love the way UC finishes on boats (I do use a rotary with it).. for the whites/silvers I usually reach for the UC before the 105/205 combo unless it is severely damaged.. On darker vehicles I use the 105/205 combo and they look fantastic.. Meguiars has done a marvelous job with the products that are available today!

[Tuck91]

Re: Lets talk about M105

I agree, UC is a great product introduced in the consumer line. Before, all we had in the consumer line was Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner and ScratchX 1.0.

SwirlX, UC and ScratchX 2.0 definitly makes things easier.

[xantonin]

Re: Lets talk about M105

When they say to use the least aggressive product they're referreing to a test area right?

Because I imagine that using one on the entire car, then finding it does no good and using something strong is worse than just starting with something stronger.

If the light stuff removes 2, and the aggressive stuff removes 5 (as an example I really have no idea how the thickness works)

Then by starting with the least aggressive you've remove now 7. Instead if you started with 5 you'd have removed less paint/clear coat. Right?

[Bounty]

Re: Lets talk about M105

When they say to use the least aggressive product they're referreing to a test area right?

Yup....dial down your process in the test area. Once you know what you need to do you repeat it across the entire car.

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

For any correction work, I'd do a small test area with m205, wipe clean, evaluate. If it didn't do the trick, then I just bring out the m105, do the whole car with it, wipe clean, then do the whole car over again with the m205. Then some hand-applied #7 or DC2 polish .

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: Lets talk about M105

For any correction work, I'd do a small test area with m205, wipe clean, evaluate. If it didn't do the trick, then I just bring out the m105, do the whole car with it, wipe clean, then do the whole car over again with the m205. Then some hand-applied #7 or DC2 polish .

I hope it's ok if I post a contrary "argument" to your philosophy? I don't know your experience level and I'm not disputing what works for you or trying to talk you or anyone else into doing something differently. I am certainly no expert and I didn't think this method up on my own. It was shared with me by someone whose results speak for them and I have found this to be true; the severity of defects vary from panel to panel and may not warrant using an aggressive product over the entire vehicle, thus making it necessary to go back over the entire vehicle with a less aggressive product to refine the surface. It is easier since you have your pad primed and can make good time when you don't have to stop and change to a less aggressive pad/product, but if the fenders or quarter panels are not as damaged as the hood, doors and trunk, for example, why remove as much paint?

To sum up what I've been trying to practice (remember) is this; if after trying the least aggressive method first I find that I need to go to M105 to remove all defects on my test area and then M205 to refine that area, I already have two pads primed with different degrees of aggressiveness. All I have to do to use either of these pads again if they dry out while using the other are spritz with water or apply a little product. I don't prime the pad again. The next panel may not be as scratched or swirled so I try M205 first since that pad is already on my buffer from refining my first area. If that doesn't work I change back to the M105 pad, spritz or apply product, remove the defects and then back to the M205 pad (spritz or apply a little product) to refine. Then move on the same way on the next small area. Once I've made my way around the entire vehicle I'm ready for LSP and I haven't taken as much paint/clear off where it wasn't needed.

More experienced member(s) have mentioned that they can tell what product is necessary just by looking. I'm not there yet! So I "test" every area with a less aggressive product first as I work my way around the vehicle to be sure I'm using only as aggressive a product/pad as necessary. I do look at the panel first, of course and if it has the same defect/damage as the previous area there's no need to start with a finer polish. But if it's only lightly swirled or not as damaged as the previous area then M205 and a polishing pad (which is already on my buffer from refining the previous area) may just be all it needs.

As I said this the method I'm trying to develop since I believe it to be a good practice that will not remove any more paint than necessary, that will save me time by not having to go back around the entire vehicle to refine after using a cutting compound over the entire vehicle on the first pass (although M105 leaves a very nice finish!) and most importantly to help me not be in so much of a hurry to get all the way around the vehicle as fast as I can. That's my biggest problem, I want to cover too much ground too fast. Anyone else have that problem?

Anyway, that's my 3 cents, for what it's worth. (feel free to keep the change!)

[cardriver]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Good call, and that's always true to start out with the least aggressive product, as is always mentioned on the site. I should have clarified and stated that the method of doing the whole car over with m105 would only be for a car that is entirely trashed (which was what was on my mind--A 230k mile Ford that has been abused and never detailed; which is my next correction job ).

Indeed, it's probably best to go from panel to panel and start out with m205 (or lesser aggressive product than m105), and switch to m105 if it needs it.

Contributions on methods of how/when one switches between the one-two punch of 105/205 in a standard correction session would be appreciated!

[10degreesbtdc]

Re: Lets talk about M105

Good call, and that's always true to start out with the least aggressive product, as is always mentioned on the site. I should have clarified and stated that the method of doing the whole car over with m105 would only be for a car that is entirely trashed (which was what was on my mind--A 230k mile Ford that has been abused and never detailed; which is my next correction job ).

Indeed, it's probably best to go from panel to panel and start out with m205 (or lesser aggressive product than m105), and switch to m105 if it needs it.

Contributions on methods of how/when one switches between the one-two punch of 105/205 in a standard correction session would be appreciated!

I can understand having defect removal on the brain! Mainly just wanted to see if my approach was on track. I appreciate your reply.

I too would like to hear more from experienced polishers about how, when and why they switch from what to what given certain paints, defects, etc.
If it were only that easy. Something tells me that there will never be a do this and if that doesn't work, then do this and it'll be great! manual. Too many variables, types of paint, varying softness/hardness...Seems the only thing that is constant is that most cars have a lot of defects from neglect or improper care and I need to make them all perfect...NOW!