#82 looks good but doesn't last, help this newbie

[jays]

buffer swirls & some light micromarring

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jays
buffer swirls & some light micro-marring

Hi jays,

I just arrived home from a long day at the office and on the road to find my e-mail full and plenty of posts on the forum. I was up at 4:30am and it's almost 8:00pm now, so it's been a long day. After reading your last reply to this thread, I sat down and wrote the below reply to the best of my ability to try to help you science this thing out.

Producing an absolute swirl-free surface requires a number of things including, good technique, experience, right products, right pads, etc. Another factor that will determine your success is paint hardness. The harder the paint, the less workable it is and it will be more difficult to work with.

If you're still seeing buffer swirl, as in zig-zag lines that show up in the pattern you moved the buffer, then you need to determine which process left them.

One way to do this is to apply your compound in one direction, say front to back in the direction of the length of the car. for your cleaner/polish process with the rotary buffer, apply in a side to side direction.

With the #84 Compound Power Cleaner, you're supposed to buffed the product till it's almost gone to insure the abrasives have completely broken down. If you have not buffed till they're gone, then they will leave a swirl in the finish. Following with a lighter cleaner/polish will act to fill this in, but it will show up again. This would be the swirl pattern going from front to back in the direction of the car.

If it shows up going from side to side, then these means the swirls have been removed from the compounding procedure and what you're seeing is from the cleaner/polish procedure.

That's one way to test your system.

The PC is used as an extra step to insure any swirls or haze left over form the last rotary buffer step are removed. Again, paint hardness will determining you success as well as skill and technique.

After you get your finish to about 99% of the way there, it will often require an application of a pure polish or a quality wax to take your results to the top. Achieving a 100% swirl free finish when viewed in direct sunlight is very, very difficult to do unless everything in your process is perfect, this includes your skill level.

Anytime you touch the finish, the potential for instilling a scratch, or hundreds of thousands of them, is possible. That's why I think polishing paint is an art form, not everyone can do it. I can't paint a picture, or carve a statue, heck... if you've ever seen my handwriting, you would know I have no skills whatsoever when it comes to drawing, let alone signing my name on a check.

#20 Polymer Sealant isn't that good of a last step product if your goal is a 100% swirl free finish in direct sunlight, products like Gold Class, #16 Professional Paste Wax, NXT Tech Wax or #26 Hi Tech Yellow wax will do a better job of taking your result to their highest level, a 100% swirl free finish.

If you lived in the SoCal area, I would love to take a stab at helping you out and hopefully dialing in a system that works on this paint system.

I hope some of what I wrote will help you...

Mike

[jays]

[QUOTE]
With the #84 Compound Power Cleaner, you're supposed to buffed the product till it's almost gone to insure the abrasives have completely broken down. If you have not buffed till they're gone, then they will leave a swirl in the finish. Following with a lighter cleaner/polish will act to fill this in, but it will show up again. This would be the swirl pattern going from front to back in the direction of the car.[QUOTE]

I was informed that per customer service you have to remove the 84 while still wet. Kinda like SFP, to my knowledge i cant seem to work in any 80series polish til its gone it always seems to cake up. This is applying a thin line about 3" long or a nickel sized drop. Also the lighter cleaner/polish fills or removes of the leftover marring?
thanks

[chevylvr]

I took your advice!

The product you mentioned, M-84, M-80 and M-82 are all safe for use on fresh paint and for use in body shop environment. They will all wash off with water as they are not formulated for long lasting protection, but instead for removing defects and restoring clarity and gloss.

Do you own a porter cable dual action polisher? If not, I would recommend one to compliment your rotary buffer work.

After polishing with which ever polish you finish with, try applying a couple of coats of wax such as Tech Wax or M-26 Hi Tech Yellow Wax.

Waxes will last longer and improve the appearance of the results you were able to produce with the polishes.

I purchased the DA polisher and man what a great tool! I don't know how I ever got along without it. I applied two coats of the NXT Tech Wax using the DA polisher to remove the wax and all I can say is WOW. Just what I was looking for. Thanks for the advice.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jays
I was informed that per customer service you have to remove the 84 while still wet. Kinda like SFP, to my knowledge i cant seem to work in any 80series polish till its gone it always seems to cake up. This is applying a thin line about 3" long or a nickel sized drop. Also the lighter cleaner/polish fills or removes of the leftover marring?
thanks

Hi Jays,

There is a balance between buffing these product too long and not enough, something that you have to learn through experience. Customer Care is right in that you don't want to buff till the product is completely dry, their should still be a wet film left behind, but this is a very clear, light film.

After compounding, you need to re-polish the surface with a softer pad, either a W-8000/W-8006 or a W-9000/W-9006 with a less aggressive cleaner/polish. This process should remove 90 to 99% of any left over swirls or marring.

After that you need to apply wax to seal the paint and take your results to a higher level by filling in and adding a rich, uniform look to your results. If you stop after the polishing process, the polishing oils will wash off and your paint will begin to lose it's luster and appearance until you re-apply polish again. Meguiar's cleaner/polishes and pure polishes are not waxes and will not last very long, they're not intended to be long lasting products, that's what wax is for.

Also, once you produce a completely swirl free, flawless finish, you will have to maintain it. It will go downhill as time goes by and the finish is exposed to washing, and other forms of contact.

Quite the opposite is true, if you work the finish up to a flawless condition, and then park it in an enclosed environment, such as a garage or a museum, and never touch it, the results will last and last. It's day in, day out use and wear and tear that cause all finishes to fall back from the previously achieved level of beauty.

Just the other day ago as I was working on the Ferrari in this link,

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider

I explained to the owner that the results we achieved on this day will fall off as time goes by and he uses the car, i.e. drives it, washes, wipes it etc. I think he may have been a little surprised.

I always try to explain to people that your car's paint is a delicate, thin coating that is easily scratched and easily dulled. You must do everything you can to take care of a show car finish or it will continually go downhill.

Take a look in any large parking lot of a store. Do a majority of the cars in the parking lot have a flawless, show car finish? Or are they dull, hazy and filled with swirls and scratches?

Yet, when they were brand new, on the dealership showroom floor, they looked brand new with clear, high gloss finish. So what happened to take them from a high gloss, showroom new shine, to the condition you see them in the parking lot?

The answer is they get touched and are exposed to normal wear and tear and this tends to instill defects, not improve the finish.

After you have applied your LSP, (your last step product), and give your car's finish it's final wipe before removing your hand and saying to yourself, "It is finished", after this point in time, the finish will look as good as it's going to get. Depending upon your skill level, the finish will be at its maximum potential. If this car is put back into service, i.e. it is put back onto the road, (it is not stored in a museum), the finish will tend to diminish from it's current state of beauty, it won't get better and better.

Does that make sense?

That's why after you have worked a finish up to a flawless condition, you need to be thoughtful of how you maintain it, i.e. no dish soap, no tatty wash mitts, high quality drying towels and frequent maintenance in-between regular washing and waxing, that's where Meguiar's Quik Detailer and Quik Wax come into play.

That's why my signature line says,

”Find something you like and use it often”

If you find a product you like, then apparently the results look good in your eyes, if you use it often, then your finish will always look great. It's only when you begin to neglect or abuse the finish that it goes down hill.

So after compounding your finish, after re-polishing it with a less aggressive cleaner/polish both with the rotary buffer, (you might even opt to follow this with dual action polisher process to insure all swirls are removed), then start applying your favorite wax to finish off your hard work and lock in your results.

Hope this helps...

Mike