Expensive LSP's

[akimel]

Re: Expensive LSP's

This topic has always been a can of worms on detailing forums. Post like this often ends without a consensus or a sensible conclusion.

Quite right, and this failure to achieve consensus confirms the intensely subjective dimension of wax preference. People like what they like; they see what they want to see. There simply is no way to scientifically measure any of this and certainly no way to objectively assess value. Dave KG's judgment on this is, I think, spot on:

In seriousness, dont be fooled into the "best wax" - there is no best wax, all the looks will come from the prep stage, the wax over the top will provide protection and there may be very subtle change to the look but the chances of spotting differences between different waxes are very small. Add to that there are many waxes that offer similar little additions, and different people prefer different nuances.... Ultimately though, get the prep right and then just use a wax that you enjoy.

And again:

Reading as a physicist with a rather objective eye, there is no hard scientific fact to suggest that a few microns (and its not even that, an LSP layer is submicron typically) can enhance the finish on a car. Indeed this is bourne out in practice and demonstrated many times that adding an LSP to a perfectly prepped finish makes little if any tenable difference. What you can get is a very subtle nuance added to the paint, but dont expect massive differences as they simply are not there - in practice, and this is justified by the science. ... Or - look at some more experimental evidence, more and more of which is building to suggest, despite claims, that LSPs really dont make a tenable difference to the looks of a well prepped finish. I believe this to be true from my own experimentation, and that while you can get a subtle nuance here and there, ultimately there is no big difference between them in looks when the preparation is done correctly.

I really do believe that Dave is right about all of this ... yet that hasn't stopped me from trying different waxes. I guess I'm just a gullible romantic about these things. I really want to believe, for reasons that escape me, that the more expensive waxes really do bestow a "look" superior to that of less expensive waxes; but I confess I am not sure I have actually seen this borne out in my limited experience. Perhaps I'm simply hoping that a protectant will compensate for my lack of polishing skills. The quest continues.

Cheers,
Al

[Bounty]

Re: Expensive LSP's

I really do believe that Dave is right about all of this ... yet that hasn't stopped me from trying different waxes. I guess I'm just a gullible romantic about these things. I really want to believe, for reasons that escape me, that the more expensive waxes really do bestow a "look" superior to that of less expensive waxes; but I confess I am not sure I have actually seen this borne out in my limited experience. Perhaps I'm simply hoping that a protectant will compensate for my lack of polishing skills. The quest continues.

Cheers,
Al

Ok, I'll bite and throw my .02 cents into the discussion. I am a big proponent of the fact that a well-prepped and polished paint surface will be enhanced only a miniscule amount by any LSP. That does not, however mean they are without worth or merit. This is particularly true when you realize most of our work is not about 100% corrections. So a 50%, 75% or even 90% correction can indeed be benefitted (in some cases greatly) by a particular LSP.

Fillers, masking agents, gloss enhancers, infusing oils/conditioners, and most importantly the protection and preservation ability of LSP's can wholly or in part contribute to a vehicle's final appearance. Even on a completely prepped paint surface, those subtle nuances in gloss, liquidity, and depth can be the icing on the cake.

The major difference in final look in my opinion can be found between carnauba waxes and synthetic sealants and not so much between the individual products within the same category. This is particularly true of varying colors and paints with high metal flake content, custom artwork, or custom shading. High end LSP's also possess features or characteristics of application which are of benefit such as true wipe-on/wipe-off application and non-staining formulations which Meguiar's does not offer currently.

In the end it is a subjective preference and the key is to find a product...any product...which looks good to your eyes on your particular paint surface and enjoy it!

[Calais]

Re: Expensive LSP's

My goal was to prove that a properly prepped surface would look amazing despite the cost of your LSP product, not to discourage anyone from buying Swissvax, Zymol or any other boutique wax. I provided pictures showing a paint surface that I spent a lot of time honing (it's still ~70% in my opinion) and coated it with a thin layer of extremely inexpensive wax. I think the resulting finish was fairly impressive despite the cheap LSP I used. I felt like proving that one does not need an expensive boutique wax to create a head-turning paint surface. The importance of one's LSP emphasized way too much, in my opinion.

That is all.

[Eddie6th]

Re: Expensive LSP's

My goal was to prove that a properly prepped surface would look amazing despite the cost of your LSP product, not to discourage anyone from buying Swissvax, Zymol or any other boutique wax. I provided pictures showing a paint surface that I spent a lot of time honing (it's still ~70% in my opinion) and coated it with a thin layer of extremely inexpensive wax. I think the resulting finish was fairly impressive despite the cheap LSP I used. I felt like proving that one does not need an expensive boutique wax to create a head-turning paint surface. The importance of one's LSP emphasized way too much, in my opinion.

That is all.

You opened up a big can of worms.


Nobody will discourage me from buying a particular wax. The price will discourage me.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Expensive LSP's

My goal was to prove that a properly prepped surface would look amazing despite the cost of your LSP product, not to discourage anyone from buying Swissvax, Zymol or any other boutique wax. I provided pictures showing a paint surface that I spent a lot of time honing (it's still ~70% in my opinion) and coated it with a thin layer of extremely inexpensive wax. I think the resulting finish was fairly impressive despite the cheap LSP I used. I felt like proving that one does not need an expensive boutique wax to create a head-turning paint surface. The importance of one's LSP emphasized way too much, in my opinion.

That is all.

I will definitely agree with the fact that you don't need an expensive LSP to make heads turn. You can use a cheap LSP like cleaner wax and it will make heads turn, it may not look as good as if it was sealed with a more expensive LSP to some, but it still enough that was put into the prep that makes people say wow!

[MoPe77]

Re: Expensive LSP's

But in the end, my 335i and G37 are just ordinary cars that nobody gives a hoot about.

Ordinary? Where I originally came from, you were lucky to have a car. Let alone, one of those. And you have both!? Congrats man. Those are sick cars IMO.

[Megafast13]

Re: Expensive LSP's

Wow! This topic has really taken off haha.

I have tried more expensive waxes, but none over 100 dollars. I think someone would be insane to spend more than that on a wax or sealant.

I honestly don't see a difference between a wolfgang and wax and NXT 2.0.
From Appearance, Reflection, Gloss,etc.

If anything, I think the more expensive paste waxes are much harder to work with. They are harder to apply and remove and such.

I honestly believe that NXT 2.0 is currently the best option overall. As many others have already said, there may be a wax out their that gives more pop or gloss but it will fail in other aspects such as application.

I don't care if my wax is made from natural carnuaba from a rain forest, or blended together in a lab/factory.

NXT 2.0 and M26 get my vote for the easiest Application, Smell, Removal, Gloss, Pop, Protection, Beading/Sheeting, etc

[AeroCleanse]

Re: Expensive LSP's

If anything, I think the more expensive paste waxes are much harder to work with. They are harder to apply and remove and such.

Harder? They are easy to use. As I said before, spread a thin layer, wait 15-20min then wipe off with a microfiber. People that have a hard time often put on way too much product.

[Eddie6th]

Re: Expensive LSP's

Even the whole issue with Carnauba waxes.

It's already been stated on the forum that it's not just the carnauba content that makes it what it is.

If Meguiar's are already using selected carnauba of good quality(which I have read in the past),what's with the more expensive ones.The amount? The location? The color?

[Bunky]

Re: Expensive LSP's

.... but I honestly cannot say that it is dramatically superior to NXT or Collinite 845. In light of Dave KG's wax test, I do wonder to what extent we see what we want to see.

After doing my own wax test and thinking about how to try it again, bllack may be a neutral color but I think some of the optical effects may be appreciated on different colors and metallic paints. I did not see much difference and my paint was not in perfect condition either. M wax test did include a popular glaze and I did not see any obvioua improvement either.

[beautechnique-scott]

Re: Expensive LSP's

Even the whole issue with Carnauba waxes.

It's already been stated on the forum that it's not just the carnauba content that makes it what it is.

If Meguiar's are already using selected carnauba of good quality(which I have read in the past),what's with the more expensive ones.The amount? The location? The color?

apparently its the percentage by volume of No1 grade carnauba wax thats actually in the product itself.
swissvax state that paul daltons crystal rock is 76% by volume where as SV onyx is 30%.
i find it hard to beleive at all that a wax could have anymore than 50% otherwise it wouldnt be workable...........you would need an angle grinder or hammer and chissle to remove it!
onyx is a workable slick, oily wax which i would assume is about the same content % wise as that of dodo juice rubbish boys edition.
dodo juice waxes are between 20-45% ( supernatural ) IMO and are good workable waxes, the colour charged ones are also benificial for boosting the colour and making it pop which i think would signify some form of poly booster has been added.
ive wanted to try the megs yellow tech wax as it sates it has a percentage of yellow carnauba wax.........though how much i dont know.
No16 mirror glaze paste wax is a good entry level wax, durability lasts about 2 month at its best, easy on easy off, doesnt smell bad and leaves a nice slick feel which is good for an off the shelf product.
the gold class paste wax smells like sour cream, is very chalky/dusty and did not impress me at all so poor value/finish and durability makes it a know go.
stick with your nxt, No16, some dodo ( SN is to expensive and isnt that good IMO ) and you will be fine.
anything over the £30-£35 which works out to be $50 is silly.

[Eddie6th]

Re: Expensive LSP's

Thanks scott.

I agree with that. Max that I pay for wax is Techwax2.0,but the others are half.I'm happy with the results.

Never tryed the GC paste wax.You say it smells like sour cream,and yet the liquid smell's sweet.

[Calais]

Re: Expensive LSP's

Never tryed the GC paste wax.You say it smells like sour cream,and yet the liquid smell's sweet.

Mine doesn't smell like sour cream. Bad batch, maybe? My GC paste smells rather pleasant is not very powdery at all.

[dsclark]

Re: Expensive LSP's

There is a curious pyschology when it comes to car care products, with more $ meaning better.
True story- on one car forum site, a person claimed to be a chemist and was offering to selling 2oz tins of wax for $80 that he said was better than the stuff Zymol sold for $500.
Ok, digest those prices for a sec..
He became a forum sponser and people bought these tins. Testimonials poured in from forum members and this induced others to buy these little itty bitty tins of wax. One member claimed to be a detailer of exotic cars and siad it was better than anything zymol made. He was a long time poster so I don't think he was a plant.
Then the truth came out- the guy was no chemist. He bought wax made by the Chemical Guys, repackaged it and jacked the price many, many times. Why were people so fooled? Because of what I call car wax psychology.

[kimchiyuk]

Re: Expensive LSP's

There is a curious pyschology when it comes to car care products, with more $ meaning better.
True story- on one car forum site, a person claimed to be a chemist and was offering to selling 2oz tins of wax for $80 that he said was better than the stuff Zymol sold for $500.
Ok, digest those prices for a sec..
He became a forum sponser and people bought these tins. Testimonials poured in from forum members and this induced others to buy these little itty bitty tins of wax. One member claimed to be a detailer of exotic cars and siad it was better than anything zymol made. He was a long time poster so I don't think he was a plant.
Then the truth came out- the guy was no chemist. He bought wax made by the Chemical Guys, repackaged it and jacked the price many, many times. Why were people so fooled? Because of what I call car wax psychology.

Exactly why I am perfectly content spending $10-$15 on a tin/bottle of Meguiar's!!!