Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

[davey g-force]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

And proper washing and drying techniques will reduce them coming back.....but for a black daily driver, swirls are a fact of life in the long run!

Yes but easy to minimse and keep on top of with some time, care, patience and knowledge.

...even on a black dd...

[SVT Lightning]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

I disagree. I have done many, many black car with no swirls. Experience, patience, proper products and equipment will allow a swirl free finish.

And proper washing and drying techniques will reduce them coming back.....but for a black daily driver, swirls are a fact of life in the long run!

[THE BIG BUFFER]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

Always everyone have swirls on their cars, especially the black ones!

I disagree. I have done many, many black car with no swirls. Experience, patience, proper products and equipment will allow a swirl free finish.

[EPHIOS]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

Always everyone have swirls on their cars, especially the black ones!

[bullitt21]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

I get these all the time, it's 60% of my business fixing DISM's. Here's an example. I won't mention the name, but this particular car came from a dealer in Houston that only sells high end cars, and the one in the picture is one of their lower end cars. When I looked at there website and saw the caliber of cars, I thought I hope there not doing this to all the Exotics that roll through there.

[gainesvilledetailing]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

They sure don't come that way from the factory. You got what is called....DISO. Dealer Installed Swirl Option.

plus 1. Those things should be almost as good as they can get. With that said I always recommend a clay bar treatment if not a little polishing to my customers when they get a brand new vehicle. Most of the time new cars have not been cared for properly while on the lot. A lot of people test driving, sales people in a hurry. All of this can and will lead to the aforementioned DSIO

[RYB]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

[QUOTE=Mike Phillips;238548]In a perfect world there should be no swirls in a new car or a brand new paint job.

As the car is improperly touched, it will gain swirls no matter what the color. Clear coats are harder paints than traditional single stage paints but scratch very easily and then because the swirls and scratches are in a clear layer of paint over the top of a colored layer of paint they show up to your eyes very easily.

Swirls are the norm for a daily driver if it's not meticulously cared for, this mean you can't take it to a car wash you have to take ownership of the car washing process yourself. (Car washing is "touching the paint).

Welcome to clear coats...
Welcome to clear coated black cars...

Is it too late to take it back for a silver metallic paint? Silver is harder to see the swirls because in the sun it kind of blinds you to look at it.


I have had some problems with wax smearing on black vehicles and I have to go over with a wet micro rag then dry. Is there a good wax for black vehicles that does not have to sit on vehicle very long?

RYB
Boehmanr@aol.com

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

Is there anything I can tell them to make sure they get it right, and get all that stuff out of the clear coat the first time?

IF this is a typical body shop then they're likely only going to use rotary buffer and not a DA Polisher.

Chances they don't have an electric DA Polisher like our G110 or a PC but they should have an air-powered DA Sander and they could use this for their last machine step using any of the below,

M205
M105
M83
M80
M82
M09

Of course for the lighter products listed above they will have to have finished with a very shallow swirl from their rotary step, not heavy swirls from some archaic compound and worn/tatty wool pad.

If they don't own M105 or have never heard of it before you might clue them in because by itself with a wool pad in good shape will get most paints to about 90% of a swirl free finish.

Sorry to say, your experience is the norm for body shop quality.

Big picture is this, if they're going to finish with a wool pad on a rotary buffer then you're likely going to have some swirls. Most body shops will be sure to do a good job of glazing the paint before you show up with products like M07 Show Car Glaze or 3M Imperial Hand Glaze which will only mask the swirls left by their buffing work.

While it's possible to achieve a swirl free finish using only a rotary, that's an art form, not thE norm.

Keep in mind, each time they compound the paint they're removing paint that you just paid to have sprayed onto the car. So hopefully they'll be experienced to know not to just keep compounding the problem, (no pun intended).

Just be up front and ask them

What are you going to use for products?
What are you going to use for a pad
What kind of machine are you using for the final machine process

Print this out and take it with you. We teach people that work at body shops how to produce customer pleasing swirl-free results all the time, all it takes is for an owner and the employee doing the work to care about the quality of their work, their customer and their reputation.

Good luck... let us know how it turns out...

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

I had returned my black buffer swirled car for a graphite gray car with no buffer swirls or holograms. The new car was rear ended two months later. I got the bumper repaired and told them that they needed to make sure there were no holograms or buffer swirl on the car. Of course there are holograms a plenty where they worked on it, some that look like straight streaks in the clear coat. Showed them the problem and they are going to fix it. Is there anything I can tell them to make sure they get it right, and get all that stuff out of the clear coat the first time?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

My clear coat question du jour... I took the Accord to the dealership where the outside paint guy fixed the part of my bumper with the little paint scrapes.

Help us out here, is this a different car than the one you got your money back for?

The one thing I noticed was that there are lots of either tiny bubbles or pin holes in the clear coat where they did the work.

They said after about 48 hours those could be wiped out with a micro-fiber cloth.

Does that sound right?

No. That sound like solvent popping or pin holes, which are paint defects that are throughout the film of paint, not merely on the surface of the paint. If these were only topical, that is a defect on the top surface then you could abrade them off and then polish the paint back to a glossy finish but if they are defects that are in the paint or throughout the paint then they cannot be removed because to remove them would mean abrading or compounding the paint till you reach where they start and if they start at the panel then this means you would remove all the paint, therefore they cannot be removed, at least if the goal is to have good looking paint on the car.

They don't look like they would wipe out. If they don't wipe out can they be waxed out?

Waxing only applies a topical layer of protection, to remove a defect in the paint you need to remove a portion of the paint until all of the defect has been removed, in other words you have to level the paint to the lowest depth of the defect.

This article explains this in exacting detail and is shared so often on this forum not only is it in the Hot Topics forum group it's also a "Sticky" so it's always at the top and quickly and easily available so people like me can quickly and easily access it, grab the clickable code to copy and paste into a thread like this...

What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...




Although the subject uses the word "Scratch" the principals explained include any defect that is "in" the paint.

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

My clear coat question du jour... I took the Accord to the dealership where the outside paint guy fixed the part of my bumper with the little paint scrapes. They evened out those two pits primed it and painted it all in less than an hour. I'd say it looks like they did a good job. The one thing I noticed was that there are lots of either tiny bubbles or pin holes in the clear coat where they did the work. They said after about 48 hours those could be wiped out with a micro-fiber cloth. Does that sound right? They don't look like they would wipe out. If they don't wipe out can they be waxed out?

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Cool. Once again thanks for everything. This is a great forum.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

From your response, it sounds like it's relative normal to have a small scrape like that in need of a quick touch up?

Damage happens to cars in the process of getting it from the assembly line to the dealership showroom floor, that's life.

Let them touch it up and then take ownership of maintaining your new car's appearance.

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

They know I am bringing it back and they are only to touch up that small spot. I even told them I want to talk to the person doing the work before they touched it. It ***** that the car had a blemish like that before I even drove it off the lot. From your response, it sounds like it's relative normal to have a small scrape like that in need of a quick touch up?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Is this a reasonable thing to let the dealer handle?

Yes.

Let them fix the problem but don't let them touch the rest of the car. You have to let them know you're serious when you tell them

Don't wash the car
Don't detail the car
Don't polish the paint
Don't wax the paint
Don't touch the paint

If you have to, print this thread out in Landscape mode and show it to them, let them know you don't want them to touch the paint in any way shape or forum except for the touch-up to the scrape on the bottom of the bumper.

Be nice but be firm.

Congratulation on getting out of the DISO car and getting into an untouched car.