Are holograms and buffer swirls the norm for a BRAND NEW BLACK CAR?

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Are there any resources anyone could point me to, so that I might find a skilled professional to fix these problems.

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

The majority of the swirls are holograms and resemble the bottom two pictures. There are some cobwebs on the hood though.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Wow, finding a good detailer online is hard. If I talk to this place my dealership is recommending, I am going to ask hem how long they think it will take them to get all of the swirls out. Is 5-8 hours the correct answer?

If they're fast and good and they don't have to wash the car and more than one person is working on it at one time then maybe, but just the swirl removal process alone using a DA Polisher on the average sized car takes 4-6 hours as you can't move the polisher fast or it doesn't do anything.

It also depends upon how deep the swirls are and how hard or soft the paint is, or how polishable the paint is.

Tell them you'll let them do it but you would like to see them do a small section first and then look at the results both inside the shop and out in the sun. This isn't the best test as a coat of wax can fill in swirls.

Removing swirls and created a swirl free finish is hard to do, especially on black paint, if it were easy everyone could do it. It's usually not a fast process and the reality is that if your car is a daily driver swirls are just going to come back over time just from normal washing and wiping unless you're really good and really careful with how you "touch" the paint.

That's the reality of clear coat paints.

Look at the pictures below and let us know what type of swirls you have, either cobweb type or rotary buffer swirls.


Cobweb Swirls vs Rotary Buffer Swirls
Below is an explanation between the difference between random swirls and scratches that show up in what is commonly referred to as Cobweb Swirls as compared to Rotary Buffer Swirls.


Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls
Actually, the term cobweb swirls or spiderweb swirls comes from the fact that when you look at the paint in such a way as to place the reflection of the sun or another source of bright light so that it's on a painted panel, you'll see what looks like swirls and scratches forming in a circular pattern around the point of light.

Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls




Cobweb Scratches or Cobweb Swirls



Now if you move around a little bit so as to move the point of light around on the panel you'll see what looks as though the cobweb swirls are following the point of light. The cobweb swirls are not actually following the point of light what's really happening is that the entire finish is so filled with random scratches that wherever you place the point of light you'll see the circular or cobweb pattern show up because the random scratches will reflect the light back towards the center of this point of light. So as you move the point of light around on a painted panel it looks as though the cobweb swirls are following the point of light.

Does that make sense?

The scratches are not specifically circle scratches, they could be a all straight-line scratches but the effect is they look circular because the point of light is circular and the light hitting the hundreds of thousands of scratches are all reflecting back to the center of the point of light making it look as though the scratches are all circular when that's not the case.



Buffer swirls or Buffer Trails or Holograms
Swirls instilled through the use and mis-use of a rotary buffer will tend to show up in a pattern that reflect the direction the rotary buffer was moved over the surface.

Rotary Buffer Instilled Swirls




Rotary Buffer Instilled Swirls

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Wow, finding a good detailer online is hard. If I talk to this place my dealership is recommending, I am going to ask hem how long they think it will take them to get all of the swirls out. Is 5-8 hours the correct answer?

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

I just moved to Santa Monica from NY. My apartment complex here does not have a great set up for me detailing my own car. Any suggestions on places around town I could work on repairing the swirls? Any recommendations for a top-notch detailer who could do the work for me?

[Murr1525]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Here are some links that will show the proper steps, and techniques that we would use by hand and machine to deal with swirls, and car care in general.

You'll notice that we really dont use a rotary buffer for basic swirl removal, he certainly may, which is a whole nother set of variables, along with his skill level, etc.

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle
Step 1 Wash
Step 2 Clean
Step 3 Polish
Step 4 Protect
Step 5 Maintain

Suggested Products for Taking Care of a New Car

How to Wash Your Car (ShowCar style!)

What it Means to Remove a Scratch

How To Remove Swirls By Hand

How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX

How to correctly apply ScratchX to remove swirls and scratches

Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer

Recommended Products - G100a Dual Action Polisher

Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

Each one, teach one... Ferrari Fiorano 355 F1 Spider

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

And as a newbie to all this, can you give me some examples of good products to use, and what techniques would best serve getting the swirls out?

[100kdown]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

My daily driver has been a black Accord for going on 8 years. This is the fourth time I've sworn this will be my last black car. But there's something about them, when all cleaned up and swirl free. You just stand back and say Wow!

Regardless of how careful I am in the washing process-two bucket wash, lambswool mit, Goldclass soap, micro towels, etc, etc, sooner or later, I'll end up with swirls. So, I've succumbed to the realization that once a quarter I'm in for a full Clay/M83/M80/Wax job. I haven't run into swirls yet that this routine won't correct using a G110 and polishing pad.

Megs makes some fantastic products that will almost always correct the problem at hand. But it takes patience and perseverance to achieve the look you're after.

As for what to ask the dealer, frankly, I wouldn't trust them to do any better than they've already done. Regardless of what they may tell you. The clear coat on your new car is a precious commodity and you don't want someone else grinding away on it any more than is absolutely necessary.

Take some time and explore this forum. There is a ton of excellent information here and some darn nice folks willing to help you along the path.

[Murr1525]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

You can certainly ask what products, what techniques.... let him show you one test spot....

Of course you would have to worry about the swirls just being covered, as mentioned above.

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

The service manager at the dealership says they actually have a guy who specializes in detailing black cars. I said I would stop buy and show him the problem and talk to him about fixing it...but that I was very apprehensive about letting them touch the car again. Can you guys recommend any questions I can ask this guy to see if he is any good? Any thing I can do to feel him out?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

As stated, if they couldn't do it right the first time they likely can't and won't do it right the second time, they'll just add some kind of wax to try to fill them in to make you happy when you pick up the car.

Later after you wash the car enough the swirls will show up again.

We can show you how if you want to attend one of our classes, the requirement is membership on the forum and reply to the sign-up thread.

2008 Saturday Detailing Class Schedule

[premier.mobile1]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Is there anything I can make the dealer do to repair this? It really does look like a crappy buffer job.

If you truely want this corrected, as Mike stated above, you must take ownership for the care of the paint on your vehicle. With the right tools and products (and you found the right place to learn what those are) you will eventually be able to maintain a finish on your vehicle that is to YOUR standards, not some dealership detailers standards. And you will find what works best and easiest for you. Eventually, you'll become obsessed and so on and then welcome to the club!!!!!!

[Murr1525]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Swirls, scratches, cobwebs are all the same idea. Some just in more of a pattern, and deper than others.

If they did it bad once, they might just do it bad again. Too many bad jobs, and you'll be through the clear coat.

What kind of car is it? If you plan to care for your car a lot anyway, could be just as easy to do it yourself.

[glacon]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

I will post a picture shortly. Just moved to Cali from NY and have a million things to do.

I don't so much have a problem with the cob-webs, as I do the holograms. Are they essentially the same thing but just spotted close up versus from a distance?

I do think it is too late to return the car for silver. And I actually do want a black one. Is there anything I can make the dealer do to repair this? It really does look like a crappy buffer job.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Are holograms and buffer swirl the norm for a black car?

Can you share a picture?

How to capture pictures of swirls in your car's paint