How Many Pads To Polish?

[gjohn28]

There was another thread where Mike stated in reference to swirl removal on a 2002 Jeep Cherokee:

"In a perfect world you would have 5-6 foam polishing pads to for the average size car and would switch out to a fresh pad as the current pad's rotating slows down under pressure."

Does this hold true even if we are cleaning the pads after every couple of applications of product to the pad?

[yalerd]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

Yes.

It's a perfect scenario. You assure not having a different behavior in the application of the product (because the pad is saturated). Also the cleaning ability (removing defects) would be the same throughout the entire process.

Again perfect scenario

[CharlesW]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

"In a perfect world "

Does this hold true even if we are cleaning the pads after every couple of applications of product to the pad?

Yes.

It's a perfect scenario.

Since very few of us live in a perfect world or get to play a part in a perfect scenario , as a hobby detailer, I don't remember ever needing more than one pad to polish a vehicle. Probably could have used the same pad for at least another, maybe more.
Several conditions that might help me:
1. I rarely have to work on a truly bad finish with lots of oxidation and dead paint.
2. Usually the most aggressive product I need is M80. If I need M83, it is usually only in a few areas.
3. I do have several pads, (Maybe a dozen or more), but the only time I change pads is when I change product or if I happen to drop one or get some contamination such as tar on it.

[Nappers]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I'm hardly in a perfect world. I have dedicated pads for my favorite products and I usually use another pad and inbetween, wash one then go to the washed one. So....2-3 pads would work good too.....

[CharlesW]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I'm hardly in a perfect world. I have dedicated pads for my favorite products and I usually use another pad and inbetween, wash one then go to the washed one. So....2-3 pads would work good too.....

2-3 pads for each product and for each vehicle?
For instance:
#83 2-3 pads
#80 2-3 pads
A total of 4-6 pads per detail.
Or 1 pad for each product used.
2 pads per detail.

[yalerd]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

Pads get saturated and when using a DA this will cause it to stop rotating.
Cleaning your pad often will help out but again changing the pad with a new one will help out even more

[Markus Kleis]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I try to have a few pads for each product just in case. Plus, many times you will need to test products and you should use a clean pad for each test product. That can easily get a few pads dirty in a hurry...

[Nappers]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

2-3 pads for each product and for each vehicle?
For instance:
#83 2-3 pads
#80 2-3 pads
A total of 4-6 pads per detail.
Or 1 pad for each product used.
2 pads per detail.

I use 2-3 pads per vehicle, let me elaborate a skosh

I start off usually with M80 (remember least aggressive) with my dedicated pad. If that don't work, then move up or down, usually up in power. Again, with dedicated pad. I usually make at least 2 passes of the more aggressive product and finish with M80/M09 etc.

During the course of making passes, I have a backup pad to my dedicated and when my dedicated pad fills up (cleaning on the fly mind you), I turn to the back up and then wash the original one and give 'er a whirl on my rotary to sling the water out and let it dry. Then I proceed with my new pad. Once that fills up, I go back to my original pad. If time is a problem, I have other pads dedicated for products, but if that product is not in the equation, I use it, just got to remember what product I was using it for. You don't want to cross contaminate products with pads.

I can get away with 2 pads on our Neon, small car. I usually go through at least 3 pads for the Yukon, using 2 different products. I have used 3 different products on a car (M02/M83/M80) to get the result I want and use pads accordingly and wash them inbetween. I really do need a few more pads and was waiting for the 2.0's to come out. I have only had one pad lose the backing plate from washing and that was on my 7006 pad and I reglued with auto goop.

Hope that helps.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

Here's your other thread,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29331

Here's what posted...

To remover swirls over an 2002 Grand Cherokee you will need and want more polishing pads. As your first pad gets wet with product soaking into it with repeated fresh applications of more product, the saturated or wet foam will act to soak up and dissipate the power of the Porter Cable unit. This will show up with decreased rotating action of the pad under pressure which means decreased cleaning action, in other words it won't be effective at removing swirls and scratches.

In a perfect world you would have 5-6 foam polishing pads to for the average size car and would switch out to a fresh pad as the current pad's rotating slows down under pressure.

I've posted the above probably a hundred times on this forum and it's based upon experience. That is watching my pad lose it's ability to rotate as the pad becomes wet. It's actually real simple to prove to yourself, after you've buffed out say a hood and a door, so now your pad is going to be fairly wet with product even if you are cleaning your pad on the fly, then switch to a fresh DRY pad and watch how much better the pad rotates again.

Most people don't notice the decrease in rotation right off the bat because it's a gradual process as you work around the car.

Mark your backing plate and even your foam pad with a black line using a permanent marker so you can easily see when the backing plate/foam pad is rotating versus just vibrating.

Note: Paint is removed best when the pad is moving over the surface, (rotating), not just vibrating against it.

You can use one pad if you like, it just depends upon what you want to do and how fast you want to do it. If you want to remove swirls that means you want to remove paint as that's how you remove swirls you level the surface. Wet pads don't rotate as well as dry pads.

[gjohn28]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I guess I'm going to need more polishing pads...

[CharlesW]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

The mark on the pad to check rotation is something I will have to try.
With #80 being the most common Meguiar's polish I use and #9 2.0 being another, I don't remember having a "saturated" pad. Dry buffing doesn't seem to occur since I can always see where I am applying the polish. I was once told by a Meguiar's rep that if I could see the product on the finish, it was probably plenty.
There is also the possibility that the vehicles I work on, (Mostly my own), don't need the amount of correction that uses enough product to saturate a pad.
It's currently 2 degrees above 0 with about 6"+ of snow and ice on the roads so it will be a while before I do try it, though.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I guess I'm going to need more polishing pads...

That's just the nature of the beast. DA Polishers have a clutch which is the reason people love them, (prevents burning through paint), but it's also their downside as it limits how much pressure you can apply and thus how much correction power they have to offer. Using one to remove swirls, (remove paint), is a balancing act of applying enough pressure plus using good technique, the right pad and the right chemical. That's not all though because as dry foam becomes wet foam, the wet foam seems to be very good at absorbing and dissipating the energy provided by the tool. This shows up as less ability to rotate the pad and instead it will just tend t vibrate and the pad, abrasives in the product don't tend to remove swirls as well when it's just vibrating.

The above is all related to the the tool itself, as in an tool that oscillates and rotates through it's design but also with a clutch for safety.

The extreme option is a rotary buffer which is direct drive and as your buffing pad becomes wet with product it has no effect on whether the pad rotates or not. Of course if you hold the buffer in one place to long you risk burning through the paint. There's a lot of other characteristics about using a a rotary buffer that distinguish it from using a dual action polisher which below I've included some links to some threads to explain these difference.

Hope that helps to explain what's going on at the surface level when you're buffing out a car with a dual action polisher and why you can get the swirl removal step done faster with more pads. It's not our fault nor any other company's fault that sells DA Polishers, Pads and Chemicals, it's just the nature of the beast. Safety over power.


The below thread all discuss Dual Action Polishers and their abilities and in some case compare and contrast them to rotary buffers for a better understanding of the two different tools.

Rotary Buffers versus Random Orbital Polishers
Please explain Pros/Cons between Rotary and Orbital Buffers
PC + 83 not "Cutting" it! (The Limits of Dual Action Polisher)
Rotary vs DA Polisher vs Traditional Orbital Buffer
G100/PC - Should it be spinning all the time?
Will I notice a difference if I use the G-100
My Hatred of Clear Coats
Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC?
Can You Use the PC to Polish-out #2000 Grit Sanding Marks?


Despite any downsides to the DA Polisher it's still dramatically better and faster than working by hand, especially when it comes to clear coat paints.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

Don't forget to read this one if you haven't already...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7228

[gjohn28]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

Thanks, Mike, for the detailed explanation (and the time you took on Christmas day to answer). I just simply wasn't aware that for effective swirl removal it might be necessary to use more than one polishing pad for a given product.

I recently did my two black daily drivers using #80 on an 8006 pad on each. Both had light to moderate swirls and I was very pleased with the results. I put a black mark on each pad and did notice as I got closer the last panel on each car that the pad did not appear to be rotating as much and some sections seemed to be requiring more passes than previous sections. I was also cleaning my pad on the fly. I just assumed this was because my technique was breaking down due to mental and physical fatigue.

The #80 with an 8006 removed "most" of the swirls, which I suspect you and most of the other pro's on this forum would probably not have thought to have been that severe in the first place. However, based on what I've learned here, I am thinking that had I used 2 or three polishing pads, I might have been able to achieve more thorough swirl removal in even less time.

Thanks again for the help and advice and Merry Christmas!

[Nappers]

Re: How Many Pads To Polish?

I guess I'm going to need more polishing pads...

I hear ya! My way has been working but it's a pain and I'm sure I'm wearing out my pads faster. Just waiting until after CHRISTmas and the dust (or snow) settles to get more pads.

Mike is right though, I just do what I can with what I have