Holograms with m80 and G110

[Jokeman]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Rasky, have you tried an IPA wipedown right after polishing?

[RaskyR1]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Rasky, have you tried an IPA wipedown right after polishing?

I have, but it's not something I normally do. I may start doing it more often now though.

[02CAMSS]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

I would really like to know also what Meguiars comes up with.I am tired of buying 50 dollar polish and even though I like it alot I would have no problems switching brands.

[Junebug]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

I have a Honda Accord - 2008, and yeah, the paint does appear to be soft or "easier" to correct, depending on how you look at it. Ever do an Audi detail? You'll appreciate soft paint more afterwards - trust me. For the occasional polish - I just use menzerna FFII (87) but when that runs out, I'm switching to Meguiars - got a local distributor in Raleigh.

[02CAMSS]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

I have a Honda Accord - 2008, and yeah, the paint does appear to be soft or "easier" to correct, depending on how you look at it. Ever do an Audi detail? You'll appreciate soft paint more afterwards - trust me. For the occasional polish - I just use menzerna FFII (87) but when that runs out, I'm switching to Meguiars - got a local distributor in Raleigh.

But which polish?I hope they let us know what was used to correct the Fit in this thread.

[Andrew C.]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Mike will probably do a better write up later, but we used 80 on a polishing pad again on the fit and it did cause holograms. We followed it up with some color x which has some abrasives in it. The color x took out the holograms. On the bird poo, we used some m105 by hand and it got some of it out. Mike then used it by DA but it left some hazing so he followed up with color x. I will tell you that the m80 did wonders on taking the swirls out and the color x did a good job on removing or filing the holograms. It is a daily driver so it is going to get beat up after constant use, so even if color x filled some of the holograms and they started to show up again, you would know its time for a new coat of wax.

I need to go get some color x so I can do her whole car!

[Ivan Rajic]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Hey there guys, So yesterday I was detailing a Black Honda Fit. I washed with Gold Class and then used a Mild Blue Clay Bar. I then started off with a test spot of m80 on the m8006 pad with my G110. It sure took out the swirls pretty well however it left behind holograms. I decided to go to something less aggressive so I used m09 on another m8006 pad. It did the same thing. I am a member of f150online and a few members told me that Honda paint is soft and the m80 could just be too abrasive for it. One suggested using m80 on a 9006 pad which has no cut. Still no luck in taking the holograms out.

What do you suggest that I do to remove swirls yet not induce holograms?

Also someone said that m09 swirl remover has no cut in it but its just fillers, is this true? The bottle says that it has cut???

Thanks.

Mike already answered your questions well and I'm sure he'll help you completely at the open garage. I've done quite a few Hondas but never expereinced paint this soft... even on the many Porsches I've detailed, which have VERY soft paint, I could always finish even with a rotary and #9/8006. However, as Mike said, while there are some generalizations that are true (Audi=HARD, Porsche, Asian=SOFT) every car you get will be a bit different, so you always need to see what works. I imagine #82 or #9 with a 9006 pad should leave the finish hologram free... if not, try #3 with 8006 or 9006... otherwise, as I quoted Lumadar below... you might have just revealed those holograms and they're actually hard to remove with #80/8006... did you check the position of these holograms? did they "move" after a pass of #9/8006 over #80/8006? If they "moved" you might be dealing with extremely soft paint and will need the least aggressive stuff you can find.

As for #9, it has pretty good cutting power and while it does leave more "fillers" than other Meg's polishes as abrasive and/or more abrasive, it's nothing to be concerned about.. just do a wipe down with an ipa solution and see what you actually corrected.

#80 and a G110 leaving holograms? Wow... that is pretty interesting.

Are you 100% sure that you didn't just clean away whatever may have been hiding pre-existing holograms?

+1... First thing I that came to my mind..

But which polish?I hope they let us know what was used to correct the Fit in this thread.

Even if they do let you know, it might not work for you... if in fact the holograms are left in the paint by #80/8006 then a less abrasive polish needs to be used... I do look forward to Mike's explanation and description regarding this paint and issue though

[02CAMSS]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

It looks like scratch-x is even to strong if it left marring so I guess I am stuck with PO85R still.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

It looks like scratch-x is even to strong if it left marring so I guess I am stuck with PO85R still.

You can also consider a different application method, rather than just new products.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Taken from this thread...

Pictures & Comments from Meguiar's Open Garage - July 10th, 2008


Quote:

Originally Posted by RaskyR1 Hey Mike, What were you able to find out about the soft Honda Fit paint?

Yes.

Andrew aka andrewc_11890 did a great job of removing the swirls and he left a really nice finish with only some very light micro-marring.

We used some ColorX and a finishing pad to work this out and then topped with NXT Tech Wax.

This was the car,






Don't think we took any before shots to show how bad the swirls were but they were horrific.

We also discussed the difference in expectations for a show car finish and a daily driver as this is a daily driver and for the same reasons the finish was horrific it's usually not a good idea to try to create show car finish on a daily driver because most owners can't maintain a show car finish.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Just an additional comment... would like to point out that Andrew did the most important thing anyone can do when working on a car...

He did a Test Spot.

He did two sections on the hood of the Honda Fit and then checked his results. When he found he wasn't getting the results he was aiming for he STOPPED.

He stopped and sought out help to dial in a system that would get him to the results he was looking for. That's the best approach anyone can take.

As for the paint on the Honda Fit, it reacted just like the paint on our Honda Pilot. The M80 works really well to remove the swirls and scratches but it does leave a very light micro-marring in the finish which ColorX or M66 will easily remove with a foam finishing pad.

Remember besides your choice of product the other factors that will affect your end-results are,

Pad type
Pressure
Technique

For softer paints that will haze easily finish with a much less aggressive cleaner/polish like M09 or M82 or a Cleaner/Wax like the ColorX or the M66

After making your initial passes to remove the hazing... lighten up your downward pressure and make a few more passes, this is where your technique becomes an art form just by modifying one little aspect.

[dnoraker]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Very long time, no post... I wanted to chime in because I've struggled with this.

I struggled for a couple years with my red s-10 with micro-marring. What I call micro-marring looks like tiny little swirls that look like the pattern you can see in any polishes before you wipe them off when using the DA. It almost makes the finish look a little "milky" on darker colors. Sometimes you can see them under a halogen, but they really pop out in the sun. I would pull up to new-ish cars and be frustrated that my finish, after spending hours buffing, didn't look as clear or reflective (however, mine had great depth of color).

I tried EVERYTHING to get #83 or #80 on a DA to work with that paint, and I ALWAYS got the same result. Even #82 with a 9006 tan pad left some. (FYI, I own the DA video where they buff out the Vette). However, when I used Scratch-X by hand with a foam pad, it was gone.

My conclusion was that the paint was so incredibly soft that there was nothing by machine that wouldn't leave that finish. I sold it before I started using M66 cleaner/wax, but I suspect that may have done the trick.

Right before I sold it, I bought my Makita rotary buffer and, against this forum's advice, I went ahead and buffed out the truck after doing a couple test spots in the bed. It had never looked better! I think I had it at 900 RPM with #80 and an 8006 yellow pad and I really had to look hard to find any holograms. I guess I got lucky!

I also just sold my 2000 Impala with silver paint where I had a similar problem. #83 and #80 via DA clouded the paint with micro-marring, but #80 with the rotary was amazing! The reflections were ultra-deep, and the silver metallic probably hid any holograms that may have been left.

I recently did a '98 black Corvette where I used #83 on the rotary and #82 on DA and it turned out great with NO MICRO-MARRING, though I think I should have used #80 or #83 on DA to finish because of how hard the paint was.

Keeping in mind mine is a hobby-level business, my process has been, after any compounding:

Soft paints: rotary and #80 (8006 yellow pad) or #82 (9006 tan pad)
Hard paints: DA and #83, #80 (8006 pad), or #82 (8006 pad) depending on what looks best in the test spot.

With soft paints, I may look to try finishing with the DA and the DA-approved Scratch-X, M66 or ColorX.

[Bence]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

My softest was a black Honda too. M80 marred it heavily, and even the production line fiishing polishes like Menzerna PO85RE5 or Scholl Concepts S40 (on a 100ppi finessing pad) left holograms. Final solution was lifting the head of the rotary to avoid any pressure then refine it between 600-800 RPMs.

NHB pearl Hondas look wonderful under any kind of artificial lighting, but the sun shows the true state.

[dnoraker]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

good point, Bence... I do slow down the rotary and use minimal pressure when I'm finishing up with the rotary. That's probably why I didn't get much, if any, hologramming on my s-10 on my first rotary use. It was interesting, though, that I confirmed on that detail where I had a couple repainted panels because where the DA couldn't touch the swirls with #83, the rotary and #80cleaned them right up the first time! I LOVE the rotary!

[Peter_Klim]

Re: Holograms with m80 and G110

Haha alright thank for clearing up that m09 has abrasives in it (I thought so)

And I did just two test spots on the hood ( one of m80 and then m09 over that and then one with just m09 and then I went back over both with m80 on a 9006 pad, so it isn't too much to correct )

Newbie here, trying to learn. What does "cut" mean? Thanks