Sand scratches

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by BondoKing
Oh Darn another tool I will just have to buy

If you've never used the G100 (PC) dual action polisher before, then I'm sure you'll warm up to it quickly. It's tough to beat for bringing out the best in gloss & clarity after the rotary has done it's work.

[BondoKing]

So to make sure I have this right, use my normal steps, then use some #80 and a 6.5 inch yellow pad which would be w8006 on my DA at low speeds... This alone will keep the swirls and holograms that are not present or should I say visible at the end of rotary buffing from showing up again 4-5 weeks down the road???

Late late last night after reading the links etc.. I went to the garage and used the swirl remover.. think it is #82 with a yellow pad... Swirls and haze was gone in 2 passes... Wiped it off with windex with amonia for something strong.... Still looked great, but it will come back unless I do as I stated above ...Right??

BTW I am sorry for jumping in on the forum and asking a question that has been ask 50-11 times on here... I am just under such time constrants etc... that I did and dont have much time to surf around... I have the rest of the day ahead of me on this truck, plus there are some places where someone has hit the box and I am going to repair those too..

FYI the clearI am using is Southern Poly Urethanes... If you have never heard of them and I am sure many of you have not they are top notch.. I will add the link for learning purposes as long as that is ok. www.southernpolyurethanes.com

They are based out of Georgia and you can not beat the customer service at all... The owner is out of this world helpful and friendly... For those of you that paint, how many times I have you called the owner of PPG orDupont at 9 oclock at night with questions regarding what you were doing etc....

I use PPG DBC base for collision repair, and the black on that truck is SPI ( southern poly urethanes) as well as the clear.

BK

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by BondoKing
So to make sure I have this right, use my normal steps, then use some #80 and a 6.5 inch yellow pad which would be w8006 on my DA at low speeds... This alone will keep the swirls and holograms that are not present or should I say visible at the end of rotary buffing from showing up again 4-5 weeks down the road???

Actually, you want to use high speeds, not low speeds.

Late late last night after reading the links etc.. I went to the garage and used the swirl remover.. think it is #82 with a yellow pad... Swirls and haze was gone in 2 passes... Wiped it off with windex with ammonia for something strong.... Still looked great, but it will come back unless I do as I stated above ...Right??

No, after a few washes in bright sunlight you will see holograms.

You need to change the action of the thing touching the paint. The rotary buffer uses a rotating action and instill swirls, heavy or light it depends on a number of factors such as pressure, pad material and product, but the action remains the same.

The dual action polisher changes the action, that is the way in which the paint is touched.

[the other pc]

Originally posted by BondoKing
... Wiped it off with windex with amonia for something strong....

side note: the "alcohol-water 50/50 mix or Meguiars detailers line window cleaner to clean the oils from the finish to check your work" that Joe mentioned are both ammonia free. It's better to not use ammonia based products on paint.


PC.

[BondoKing]

Went to the store today and bought a DA polisher... also bought a w8006 and w9006 pad each... I did not buy the # 80 as I saw it was rated as having higher abrasivness then the #82 I already have... We will see what happens

I will post a pic up tonight when I get the hood the way I want it to look..

I will also make note, that this morning out of curiosity I rubbed some Zymoil on the place I had buffed last night... wiped it off and it was even darker than the buffed area..... Pulled it out in the sun and no swirls or holograms, but I know that I need the finish that way first and is the reason I got the new products/tool today..


EDIT: I forgot I had one of those polishers, not the porter cable, but I found one in one of my drawers that will spin up to 12000 opm... Might try that one for fun too


BK

[Tom Weed]

BondoKing,
Would this be the Mirror Glaze store on Preston Highway who was giving you the advice? Reason I ask, I was there last spring and lets just say they had a different view than I did on the Meguiars products and how to use them, and I was basing my info from reading and learning on this forum.

Tom

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by BondoKing
I did not buy the # 80 as I saw it was rated as having higher abrasivness then the #82 I already have... We will see what happens

BK

#82 and also #9 are very, very gentle as far as cleaner/polishes go, they work for softer paints with shallow swirls.

M80 contains a diminishing abrasive that is more aggressive than either of these but not as aggressive as the M83. It also breaks down fairly quickly.

I would recommend getting a quart of the M80 for use with the W-8006 foam polishing pad on the dual action polisher. It is a time-proven combination.

[BondoKing]

Originally posted by Tom Weed
BondoKing,
Would this be the Mirror Glaze store on Preston Highway who was giving you the advice? Reason I ask, I was there last spring and lets just say they had a different view than I did on the Meguiars products and how to use them, and I was basing my info from reading and learning on this forum.

Tom

Yes bro it is... I tell you I went in this morning told them about the forum and he said " we don't have a number 80" of course I could see it behind the counter... The guy that is at the counter is a little slow, perhaps he is someones family member, not knocking him, but I don't think he represents Mirror glaze very well... Now the old grey headed guy who always wears the glasses down on the rim of his nose is knowledgeable, but never available... I went in and ask to speak to the "boss" as they call him, and they said he was busy.... I have to admit, had I not found this forum, I would have never used these products again... Too many different ones on the market today...

I still am somewhat disheartened that I had to buy another tool for dark colors... I feel this way because there are other systems that make buffing videos etc and they use a rotary buffer from start to finish, and I know guys who put cars in Sema, been on TV shows with flawless paint, and they were buffed with rotary buffers start to finish and some of them wool pads every step of the way...

Just my thoughts outloud though... Mike I called you today and left a message... I wanted to speak to you in person before I went to the store.

Sorry for no updated pics yet, started working the hood and some scratches that have to be sanded out.. Came down stairs and flipped the switch for the compressor and have yet to make it back...lol

BK

[BondoKing]

Update, here are the pics...I apologize for the quality of some of them... When I came to put them on the pc they had spots all over them, that is from the lens being dirty... sorry.. I took a few more and they look better, but i think it is time for the camera to go to the shop...

OK, I will break down my process, machines etc... Make note all pads, products etc are Mirror glaze in case any of you wondered

1.To make a long story short, after a small amount of buffing I realized I needed to sand out some scratches that have gotten n the paint since I last touched it...

First I used my DA with an Abralon 2000 pad... wanted a little more aggressiveness, so i went Nikkens 2000 by hand and soapy water...

2. Next was RB ( rotary buffer) with wool pad run at about 2200-2800, with #M85

3. Cleaned with 50/50 mix ( I like that setup and is much cheaper than the wax and grease remover I've used before)

4. RB/M83 w8000 1500

5.50/50 clean

6.DA/M82 w8006


Now the fun part.... Everything buffed out fine with the compound... always does... Then went to dual action... looked fantastic... always does.. then used the DA and #82... looked like **** to be nice... Now I had went from a slick finish to scratches and swirls again...

I went back and buffed all the spots again that I thought perhaps somehow I missed with #85 and W7000 foam pad
Cleaned and went again with the #83 and RB...

Hood looking good again... Go over the hood with the DA and w8006 pad and #82... Now I am pissed


I even wet the hood down when I was done and re worked the entire surface with the remaining polish on the pad and panel .... Wiped it off and it looked worse than before this step... AGAIN

I give up here... Took some gold class wax I had... still did not look any better... Then used some liquid lustre...nope no better... broke out the Zymoil and bam took all the bad the DA and #82 did and made it look slick as glass...

I am at my wits end here.. I see all the cars in the threads that look fantastic..I have said it before I am not a rookie, so what am I doing wrong using the products I have seen you all use??

The low down here is, I will not be able to put any type wax as I did here on freshly painted rides...I spoke to a few painters/body men today that are friends of mine, and none of them use anything but the RB as I have always done, but they are using different systems... I really can not see me spending anymore money to get results that IMO I should be seeing already...

Mike what is your take here

BK

[Mike Phillips]

After your rotary buff step, try this,

M80 Speed Glaze/W-8006 foam polishing pad/Dual Action Polisher

Use this combo on the 4.5 to 5.0 setting.

Only work a small area at a time, about 16 inches square. Make 3 passes in three different directions, overlapping all of your passes.

When you've worked one area, move on to a new section and overlap into this previous section.

Wipe product off as you go as cleaner/polishes don't need to dry.

Use a clean, soft microfiber to remove product.

use about 15 pounds of pressure to work the product against the finish. If you can get the speed Glaze to work for you this will be a bonus as it contains a special polymer that adds some protection, (like a wax), yet it's safe for fresh paint and for use in a body shop.

Here's the results we produced on a Chip Foose Overhaulin car using Speed Glaze, no wax yet...




I'm hitting the hay, I have a class tomorrow in Irvine, I live 100 miles away and my alarm is set for 3:30am!

Get the Speed Glaze, try it... you'll like it...

[Don]

BK, in your last pic (at the end of this post), the marks on the edge of the hood look like smears/light scratching from wiping the panel down after buffing. The reflection of the overhead light is far too clear for there to be much more than very minor surface imperfections in the paint. This is a pic of truely messed up black paint:


One of the things I have noticed is that with the DA, you can get the surface so extrememly smooth and clear, even the slightest marks are plainly visible. I had a black on black '89 Camaro that I had polished to look like a pool of oil. There was a stray cat that I did constant battle with, it would sneak attack me by walking over my car at night. In the morning, I found scratches that were clearly identifiable as the fur from the cat's paws and the occasional claw mark where it would lose footing on the highly waxed surface.

My point is that on 99.9% of the cars on the road, these marks would not have been visible, but on my perfectly polished black hood, they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Yes, the hood had been repainted just prior to delivery due to acid rain damage and the paint was very soft. It was so soft in fact that I COULDN'T do anything to it by hand, it was either use the DA or have it look terrible. Perhaps you're experiencng something like this?

[Accumulator]

BondoKing- You really oughta try the #80. Not to knock #82, but I'm pretty confident that you'll have better luck with the #80. Don't worry about it having too much cut for what you're doing, compared with some of the stuff you're doing it's awfully mild.

[BondoKing]

Originally posted by Accumulator
BondoKing- You really oughta try the #80. Not to knock #82, but I'm pretty confident that you'll have better luck with the #80. Don't worry about it having too much cut for what you're doing, compared with some of the stuff you're doing it's awfully mild.

I am going to try out the #80..Does anyone else find it odd that we have to have 500 dollars in machines just to buff out a car and make it swirl free... I am not even talking about someone like me, what about the hobbyist, or someone who has jacked up paint cant afford a paint job and just wants to buff it out???

I am having trouble understanding this, because I have stated already more than once other brands do not require this. including in there buffing video's...


As a matter of fact I once or twice watched a Mirror Glaze video loaned to me buy the store on buffing... From start to finish they used a rotary buffer... and broke the process down completely... I loved the video and it made me better at what I do, but it did not say anything about having to have two machines.....

I am not at all trying to start something with MG, I would just like to know, as I have spent way to much time= thousands of extra dollars in labor that was unnecessary and without even one, "here let us do this for you since you have been led wrongly for so long"... It has always been "sorry your having problems"
Try some of this product=more lost money without results... This is the store I am referring to, but regardless I think MG should make some amends to me for this... Is this wrong thinking on my part... After all the store is the representation of the company itself.

Edit: yes the rags leave scratches when you wipe the hood off, and I thought that may be some of what I saw there too.

Got some pics of it in the sun today, let me get those up

BK

[BondoKing]

Sun pics

Here is the truck untouched from last night... Have a B-day party to go to today, will mess with this baby again late tonight

BK a.k.a. Matthew

[Pete-FWA]

BK, I used to have the same difficulties with #82. I tried it with a rotary, an orbital, a DA, by hand, and never could get it just the way I liked paint to look (fresh or cured) on certain vehicles. Even when I did get the swirl free, non-marred finish, it didn't seem as glossy as other products in that stage. Remember, though, it's not an LSP, so use Hand Polish or a wax/sealer after and you'll be very happy with gloss and quality of the finish.

#82 Swirl Free Polish is a "different" sort of material. Another thing I learned in this process: I, much as you appear to be, am very concerned about not only doing the job right, but doing it better every time. Most shops and body men scoff at anything beyond a rotary machine. Tons of people still won't use foam pads unless they're forced to do it. You're already doing more than the average and doing it very well, it would seem. You're trying harder to get more than most would. Feel good about that.

#80 Speed Glaze is one of those very versatile products that gives great results over a wider range of defects and goes equally well with DA and rotary use. We used it as a one step with wool on rough old wholesale jobs that we didn't get paid much to polish. We also used it with foam as part of intensive work on very expensive, top notch finishes. It can be your LSP on fresh paint and gives a nice gloss with some protection, as Mike stated.

Most of my detailers and finish men all but ceased using Swirl Free once they had Speed Glaze. It was easier to just reach for one bottle after compounding. Swirl Free was reserved for very limited occasions. Recently I created a thread on what seemed to be a limited use of #82 and found I was not alone.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9212