swirl advice needed?

[MicrofiberMan]

Hi everyone, i will try to explain this as clear and simple as possible, i have a black, 2014 kia sorento.....

The last time i polished it 2 months ago i used m101; on a Griots microfiber finishing pad. 2 section passes, with 5-6 passes per section. then i finished with m205 on a megs polishing pad and waxed it. It looked great, and i thought i got rid of the swirls, they were only minor anyway. I checked it out in direct sunlight a couple times. I thought for sure this time they were gone.

I've used less aggressive methods in the past. It always looks like they are gone but they come back after a couple months every time. They are faint and I only see them in direct sunlight.

They came back again this time after about 8 weeks or so. I know I'm using a strong enough method to get rid of light swirls? i figure it has to be 1 of 2 things?


1 - I'm just filling them in, even though i'm using aggressive methods, and the filler is wearing off after 6-8 washes? If this is the case I must have the hardest paint on earth?

2 - I'm getting rid of the swirls but im putting them back into the car after 6-8 washes by rubbing to hard, ect, ect.? Idk about this, I only use high quality microfiber towels, always fresh, top quality drying towels, 2 bucket wash method, merino wool mitt, everything. I do use a lot of quick detailer and spray wax but idk.

It kinda looks like the same swirls re appearing but i don't know for sure? Could my paint be that hard? Its always the back two 1/4 panels, I see them on on both sides. what do you think?

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Swirls/spiderwebs are inevitable for a driven car. While you can reduce them by being very careful about washing, they will happen just from driving, weather, and other care. One bad wash is enough to totally swirl up the finish, which is why people who wash their car a lot often have the most spiderwebs.

Once you get the paint swirl-free (or close enough), and if the paint is properly protected (lots of polish and wax), the majority of spiderwebs you'll create are just happening in the waxy polish layers on top. Those will be easy to remove with a re-waxing, especially with a cleaner-wax. However, the longer you go without doing this to return to lush protection, the more likely the polish and wax will be gone and your washing will be marring the paint itself again.

Among the tricks I've learned on this site is to rely on waterless methods more than bucket washing, especially using UWWA/D115, followed by GCQW. These products clean and fill and finish so nicely, the paint can appear to be swirl-free longer, until there is an opportunity to re-wax properly (I just went 6 months like that).

So, you're right in all respects. Swirls and spiderwebs are either being removed or hidden with polishing oils, and they return or get created no matter how careful you are, due to washing and wiping - it's just a matter of how fast and how strongly. Whether they are exactly the same lines or not seems difficult to know for sure. I'd think both are the case, such that there are some lines we haven't removed that reappear from underneath the polish as it wears away, and others that are created that can be removed more easily with re-waxing or correction.

The only hope for sanity is to regularly re-wax and use waterless tricks in between, being very careful with fewer bucket washes. Also, make sure you take the golden opportunity to re-wax with QW after every bucket wash, too. Ideally, every month or so, you can re-wax with the hand/machine wax. I say ideally, because life can get in the way, but you don't want to just wait for the wax to wear away because someone said it would last X amount of months, etc.

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Next time try polishing just one small test area using the same method, then use a proper degreasing spray or alcohol wipe to remove ALL oil and residue BEFORE applying wax so you can be sure it's not because that the swirls were just temporarily filled in by oil from the polish or filler content in the wax. And remember to prime the pad, a light mist of #34 final inspection will do nicely.

I'm not familiar with Korean cars but I'd presume it's similar to Japanese CC, which is very soft and can be easily scratched. Avoid circular motion and use light, straight motion to spread the QD and buff to shine very gently.

Also it's best to avoid using waterless methods on a soft CC. Some say it will not scratch, but as far as I know many waterless products contain oil or some sort of polymer to enhance lubuication and shine which can temporarily fill in and mask minor swirls.

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

And btw, on soft CC an aggressive cutting pad is usually not necessary to remove light to medium defects and MF pads in general pack more cutting power than foam pads so a medium cut MF pad is roughly equal in power to a medium-aggressive foam pad. Keep this in mind and cut back pressure / time .

i never quite get the point of using a 'wool mitt' to wash a car. Because the average fiber of wool is around 18-20 microns, while the average fiber diameter of a typical $2.99 MF mit is under 5 microns . It's cheaper, softer, cleans better , less likely to scratch and less likely to deteriorate when repeatedly exposed to chemicals.

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

It is possible that your paint is on the soft side. Meaning that it will marr easier than harder paints during washing and even during correcting.

Did you try a test spot prior to going with such an aggressive approach the first time?

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

I will also add to try M205 on a finishing pad instead of a polishing pad to see if it finishes out better. M205 takes a little more technique to finish out on softer paint. Another option is to try ultimate polish instead as it has less cut to it than M205. I would say to use a prep product (Car Pro Eraser, Optimum Paint Prep, etc) to remove the polishing oils left behind from either product especially if you use ultimate polish to see the true condition. Ultimate Polish contains more polishing oils than M205. In my opinion IPA is not that great to remove polishing oils.

What is your wash regiment and what tools are you using to wash the car?

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

I will also add to try M205 on a finishing pad instead of a polishing pad to see if it finishes out better. M205 takes a little more technique to finish out on softer paint. Another option is to try ultimate polish instead as it has less cut to it than M205. I would say to use a prep product (Car Pro Eraser, Optimum Paint Prep, etc) to remove the polishing oils left behind from either product especially if you use ultimate polish to see the true condition. Ultimate Polish contains more polishing oils than M205. In my opinion IPA is not that great to remove polishing oils.

What is your wash regiment and what tools are you using to wash the car?

Indeed, I just polished a friend's black Toyota Highlander using a battery powered rotary with Meg's yellow pad and M205. My god the softness of that CC totally astonished me, just 3 very quick passes with medium-light pressure @ 1800-3600 rpm removed 90% of the defects... this method won't even remove a very light wiping mark on my merc.

i brought a case of almost expired sonax aerosol degrease last year at 1/4 retail , very, very effective, it can even be used to strip polymer sealants.

(I was lazy and didn't want to use the black finishing pad, difficult to clean) lol

[amblin83]

Re: swirl advice needed?

FYI: someone in another thread mentioned that some Korean (Hyundai) cars had very hard paint, be careful and ask around because scratch proof paint can be quite tricky.

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

FYI: someone in another thread mentioned that some Korean (Hyundai) cars had very hard paint, be careful and ask around because scratch proof paint can be quite tricky.

I have also spoken to a local guy that has a 2014 Kia Sorento and he is on the opposite of the spectrum with him saying it has soft paint. I recall him saying that Car Pro Essence marred the paint during his test spot and that is an AIO. The only way to know is with the test spot that is often preached about so many times.

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Good grief there's a lot of misinformation and thread-jacking above, after my last post. No wonder people are confused who come to these forums expecting help.

Once again, it is a totally unproven assumption that any new paint is soft. Korean paints tend to be very hard, BTW. It's quite unlikely that paint hardness is the problem in this thread, or even relevant. The topic above was how swirls form and why or how they return, as MicrofiberMan said, even after they were seen to be corrected.

[drumdan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Good grief there's a lot of misinformation and thread-jacking above, after my last post. No wonder people are confused who come to these forums expecting help.

Once again, it is a totally unproven assumption that any new paint is soft. Korean paints tend to be very hard, BTW. It's quite unlikely that paint hardness is the problem in this thread, or even relevant. The topic above was how swirls form and why or how they return, as MicrofiberMan said, even after they were seen to be corrected.

Kind of like assuming all new paint is "hard", right?

Is there a forum rule that explicitly states that forum members must not contribute after Top Gear has spoken?

It contradicts the forums purpose if we sensor dialogue after you have posted. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

It's entirely possible that the OP has either:
1. Never got the defects out
2. Has extremely sensitive paint
3. Has abusive washing/maintenance techniques.

Your assertions lead me to suspect that you haven't had experience with a wide variety of paint systems. If that is infact the case, much misinformation might be originating with you.

Have you ever polished a car that even wiping wax off with a soft microfiber will mar it? Do you know what to do when that happens? Have you ever worked on the same car - once in the sun, and once in the shade, and have to compensate for changes in the behavior of the hot paint?

I could go on, but you get the point.

It would be really helpful if you could provide some first hand accounts of a new Kia you've polished. Give the OP, and anyone else needing help a detailed summary of the products, techniques, tools, etc used in the process.

[The Guz]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Kind of like assuming all new paint is "hard", right?

Is there a forum rule that explicitly states that forum members must not contribute after Top Gear has spoken?

It contradicts the forums purpose if we sensor dialogue after you have posted. It just doesn't make any sense to think that way.

It's entirely possible that the OP has either:
1. Never got the defects out
2. Has extremely sensitive paint
3. Has abusive washing/maintenance techniques.

Your assertions lead me to suspect that you haven't had experience with a wide variety of paint systems. If that is infact the case, much misinformation might be originating with you.

Have you ever polished a car that even wiping wax off with a soft microfiber will mar it? Do you know what to do when that happens? Have you ever worked on the same car - once in the sun, and once in the shade, and have to compensate for changes in the behavior of the hot paint?

I could go on, but you get the point.

It would be really helpful if you could provide some first hand accounts of a new Kia you've polished. Give the OP, and anyone else needing help a detailed summary of the products, techniques, tools, etc used in the process.

Great post. You pointed out a lot of things to consider. We really don't know what is going on with the op's paint without physically being there.

[Top Gear]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Aside from the childish trolling from others, I'm pretty sure my point, not to mention MicrofiberMan's, was fairly clearly about spiderwebs, not paint hardness. Maybe drumdan can explain in detail why paint hardness is relevant to the OP's questions, or maybe Guz can explain why he, or anyone, comments on threads about cars he's not seen and worked on in person.

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

i think i figured it out, i put to many coats of different products starting with klasse sealeant glaze. it looks like the swirls were in the lsp if that makes sense? i dont know but its back to looking great now, few minor swirls but barley noticeable. paint looks like glass wish i could show you guys a picture

[MicrofiberMan]

Re: swirl advice needed?

Swirls/spiderwebs are inevitable for a driven car. While you can reduce them by being very careful about washing, they will happen just from driving, weather, and other care. One bad wash is enough to totally swirl up the finish, which is why people who wash their car a lot often have the most spiderwebs.

Once you get the paint swirl-free (or close enough), and if the paint is properly protected (lots of polish and wax), the majority of spiderwebs you'll create are just happening in the waxy polish layers on top. Those will be easy to remove with a re-waxing, especially with a cleaner-wax. However, the longer you go without doing this to return to lush protection, the more likely the polish and wax will be gone and your washing will be marring the paint itself again.

Among the tricks I've learned on this site is to rely on waterless methods more than bucket washing, especially using UWWA/D115, followed by GCQW. These products clean and fill and finish so nicely, the paint can appear to be swirl-free longer, until there is an opportunity to re-wax properly (I just went 6 months like that).

So, you're right in all respects. Swirls and spiderwebs are either being removed or hidden with polishing oils, and they return or get created no matter how careful you are, due to washing and wiping - it's just a matter of how fast and how strongly. Whether they are exactly the same lines or not seems difficult to know for sure. I'd think both are the case, such that there are some lines we haven't removed that reappear from underneath the polish as it wears away, and others that are created that can be removed more easily with re-waxing or correction.

The only hope for sanity is to regularly re-wax and use waterless tricks in between, being very careful with fewer bucket washes. Also, make sure you take the golden opportunity to re-wax with QW after every bucket wash, too. Ideally, every month or so, you can re-wax with the hand/machine wax. I say ideally, because life can get in the way, but you don't want to just wait for the wax to wear away because someone said it would last X amount of months, etc.

great advice and exactly right, it was in the waxy layers and
a rewax is what fixed it, you are always right on man thanks alot