In line hose water softeners

[Mudwalker]

I bought a water softener for my hose recently to help combat hard water spots on my truck after washing. It's the canister type of softener with a sediment filter in one canister and a rechargeable softener cartridge in the other canister. I've used it twice to wash and rinse my truck, but it doesn't seem to do much of anything. I still get white water drips out of the rubber window strips. Does anybody here have experience with these softeners?

[Top Gear]

Re: In line hose water softeners

I've only used a whole-house filter to reduce the hard water deposits, not a softener. Drying immediately with a blower or other methods is the key to prevent spotting. Don't know what you mean by white water drips, but it sounds like more work than it's worth?

[Nick Winn]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Unfortunately I do not have any experience with in-line softeners either.

[Blueline]

Re: In line hose water softeners

I put one of those - similar to what you have Mudwalker - in my garage for use with the hose, and I seem to recall a similar problem. At the time I thought it was the salt residue in the rechargeable softener canister causing the white water drips here and there. Didn't want salt on my car, so I only used it once or twice. Now I just gently hose the car off without the nozzle, (most of the water sheets off) and as Top Gear suggests, I blow the rest off with a blower. I haven't used the softener in several years.

[lariat]

Re: In line hose water softeners

I put together a system recently with 2 filter housings and 2 "water softening" cartridges and have no measurable difference in water hardness (using a water meter to measure disolved solids), VERY DISAPPOINTING!!. The only thing I can think of is the water is flowing too quickly through the filters not allowing enough time for the resin to do it's job, I have the water flowing at full rate coming out of the tap.

[twisty roads]

Re: In line hose water softeners

they are just OK. I have a variation of the autogeek version (autogeek.net/delux-filter-system) that I made at home depot that has both the sediment filter (10 micron) and the softner filter. I use it with a power washer and a foam cannon. I use less soap and get better suds due to the cleaner/softer water. Due to the size of the filters, the softner cartridge needs recharged every 90 gallons or so, and the sediment filter needs replaced every 3-4 months. I have not tested the water for TDS since filtered, but it is not like my RO house system for drinking. Our water is hard (450+ ppm), so washing the car needs to be fast and be mini-detailed every wash. The filter system does help, however, the maintenance and cost I don't think justify the system.

CR spotless water system is suppose to be the gold standard for the current market. But it is pricey. To truly get a spot free rinse, you need de-ionized water which the inline filter do not address.

[the other pc]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Water spots are caused by minerals dissolved in the water. When the water evaporates the minerals are left behind.

Typical water "softeners" do not remove minerals. They replace minerals with other minerals. They idea being that some minerals (calcium, magnesium,...) are more annoying and cause more water system problems than the others (sodium, potassium,...), so replacing them with the lesser problematic ones is better than than leaving them.

Some people do report a preference for softened water over their straight up tap water.

To be truly spot free you need to remove the minerals. That's commonly done through distillation, reverse-osmosis or de-ionizing filtration (or some combination thereof).

Distillation is energy and equipment intensive and not often used for making industrial water for car washing.

Resin-bed de-ionizing filters (like CR spotless) are very simple. They're probably the most popular way of producing spot-free water for home car washing. Unless you give the water a long dwell time within the filter (either with low flow or using very large filters) they can also leave some percentage of the minerals in the water. Filter media is expensive and must be changed or re-charged often.

Reverse-osmosis is slow and equipment intensive. It also wastes a lot of water, often four times as much as it produces (or more). And single stage RO systems usually don't remove 100% of dissolved solids. It's usually the most cost-effective method to remove minerals because the wasted water is generally cheaper than either DI resin or the power needed for distilling.

You'll often see industrial systems use a two-stage process with RO to remove the bulk of dissolved solids followed by DI resin filters to remove what little the RO missed.

There is no easy, cheap, simple, fast and convenient to make tap water spot free. There's always a trade-off. Many pro detailers simply get large storage tanks and buy demineralized water from a bulk supplier. (Many professional detailing suppliers sell spot-free water.)


pc

[Mudwalker]

Re: In line hose water softeners

I put one of those - similar to what you have Mudwalker - in my garage for use with the hose, and I seem to recall a similar problem. At the time I thought it was the salt residue in the rechargeable softener canister causing the white water drips here and there. Didn't want salt on my car, so I only used it once or twice. Now I just gently hose the car off without the nozzle, (most of the water sheets off) and as Top Gear suggests, I blow the rest off with a blower. I haven't used the softener in several years.

Exactly. I thought the spots were salt too. If it is then I definitely don't want that on my truck. We deal with enough of that during the winter. I normally just sheet the water off, blow dry, and then blot with a MF towel.

[Mudwalker]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Pure Water Products kindly said they would accept the softener back and refund my money. I think I'll go ahead and do that.

[Top Gear]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Water spots are caused by minerals dissolved in the water. When the water evaporates the minerals are left behind.

Typical water "softeners" do not remove minerals. They replace minerals with other minerals. They idea being that some minerals (calcium, magnesium,...) are more annoying and cause more water system problems than the others (sodium, potassium,...), so replacing them with the lesser problematic ones is better than than leaving them.

Some people do report a preference for softened water over their straight up tap water.

To be truly spot free you need to remove the minerals. That's commonly done through distillation, reverse-osmosis or de-ionizing filtration (or some combination thereof).

Distillation is energy and equipment intensive and not often used for making industrial water for car washing.

Resin-bed de-ionizing filters (like CR spotless) are very simple. They're probably the most popular way of producing spot-free water for home car washing. Unless you give the water a long dwell time within the filter (either with low flow or using very large filters) they can also leave some percentage of the minerals in the water. Filter media is expensive and must be changed or re-charged often.

Reverse-osmosis is slow and equipment intensive. It also wastes a lot of water, often four times as much as it produces (or more). And single stage RO systems usually don't remove 100% of dissolved solids. It's usually the most cost-effective method to remove minerals because the wasted water is generally cheaper than either DI resin or the power needed for distilling.

You'll often see industrial systems use a two-stage process with RO to remove the bulk of dissolved solids followed by DI resin filters to remove what little the RO missed.

There is no easy, cheap, simple, fast and convenient to make tap water spot free. There's always a trade-off. Many pro detailers simply get large storage tanks and buy demineralized water from a bulk supplier. (Many professional detailing suppliers sell spot-free water.)


pc

Dropped the mic!

I can only add to that by expanding what I said before. I've used a 2-micron carbon filter and still had spots, although they were greatly reduced. It didn't cost much, some $30 from Lowe's in parts, so I wasn't too put out. After that, and having removed spots previously with the DA, I found that the best thing was to prevent the water drops from drying. The filter bought me more time after I finished washing to do the drying, but basically, I wash the wheels first, and the engine bay if I'm washing it. Then I wash the car itself. I keep it dripping wet (because flooding doesn't work with a regular garden hose or a pressure wand, and not in the heat/humidity when you're pressed for time already) and then I immediately dry the car, either by leaf blower, or carefully with a squeegee just drying the paint, followed by GCQW. The key is I do not wash or rinse the car unless I can properly dry it, otherwise it's waterless washing. This keeps me spot-free. If it rains and the car is dusty, I'm happy to let nature do the work with relatively pure water, which generally doesn't spot.

[Mudwalker]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Do you guys think it would be worth it to have my outside faucet ran through my home water softener? It looks like it would be a simple reroute of the water lines, but I water how effective it would be?

-OP

[Mudwalker]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Bump

[Top Gear]

Re: In line hose water softeners

No, I don't think it will help you. A particle filter will help somewhat, catching some of the "hard" deposit materials, but even that will be limited unless your water is very dirty. I also use more shampoo than Meguiar's recommends, both UWW and GCS mixed together, which helps treat the bucket water (at least in my mind), and smells great. The real trick is to get dry ASAP. Some here like "flooding" and then wiping with QW. Others, like me, use a leaf blower followed by QW. You'll have to experiment to see what works for you in your weather with your water and sunlight, etc. The worst thing to do is to just leave the drops of tap water on the paint and glass to dry, even if you try to "drive them off", because that will almost certainly create a lot of spots.

So, washing is every bit as much about drying as it is about cleaning. If I can't get a decent drying, I just don't bother washing with tap water, whether that's at home or at a coin-op. Personally, I think the leaf blower is the far superior method in terms of getting the whole car as dry as it can be, from the paint to the trim gaps, drip rails, wheels, and so on. There is a noticeable difference when I can do a full blow dry, and then following with QW is very, very easy.

[the other pc]

Re: In line hose water softeners

Some people have said they like using softened water better than tap water. Others didn't. Only you can decide if using your softened water would be better than your local tap water for your routine.

If you can run a long hose from a softened tap out to your car you can try it for yourself before rerouting anything.

Even just using a bucket and splashing it over the car could give you some idea of how it might work for you.


pc

[Mudwalker]

Re: In line hose water softeners

The company I bought the softener from is going to send me a second filter to run along with my original filter for free. The rep said if it doesn't work I can just send everything back for a full refund. If any of you are interested in water filter products, Pure Water Products is the company I bought this from. Their customer service has been great.