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**Murr1525** · May 25, 2005, 05:16 PM

Well, I am not sure if all the car washes are fresh paint safe or not. Have to let someone with more experience answer that one.

It will be the clay and paint cleaner that will remove the old wax, so the wash wont matter there. Meguiars Washes are designed not to remove wax. As far as which cleaner, that will depend on you paint condition, and how much swirls need removed. Since #80, and #83 are cleaner/polishes, those will work ok after claying.

You would not use #80, then #83, then #7. Either your paint will be fine after #80, with the swirls removed ,and you can go to #7 if you want, or you will need #83 first, and then #7, or #83, then #80, then #7. A small test patch should tell you if you need the #83 or not, and then if you need #80 after #83. It will be up to you if you need all 3 products, but the full order would be #83, #80, #7. Do a test patch first though, to see if #80 alone will remove the swirls u have.

You will not need ColorX after #7. You would go straight to a wax of your choice. ColorX can be used for those days when you dont have the time for all 3 clean/polish/wax steps separately. Or use ColorX and Nxt wax for 2 steps to save time. Using ColorX here would just clean off the polish you layed down. Save it for those quick detail days.

**Murr1525** · May 25, 2005, 05:23 PM

Also, you can polish a fresh surface, to help protect it. Just not waxing it. However, it is best to be safe, because very fresh paint can sometimes get small swirls easily from your application pad. Again a small test patch can be the best start, seeing how it turns out. Perhaps waiting at least a little bit could be best, or proceeding gently by hand.

**zr123** · May 26, 2005, 08:10 AM

Thanks for the speedy reply. I'll keep all of that in mind. I'm on the way to pick up some Meguiar's supplies...

Also if someone could give me their input on waxing or polishing over fresh paint... would be much appreciated.

Regards,

ZR

**TOGWT** · May 26, 2005, 12:56 PM

Newly re- painted vehicle-
Oil-based paint, lacquer or enamel and low solids paint systems are formulated with solvents (30-80% dependant upon manufacturer) once applied paint needs to dry and the solvents need to (out-gas) evaporate for sixty to ninety days (60-90) to enable the paint off gassing and aerobic curing, if the paint is covered with a conventional wax or sealant it will arrest the outgas/cure process.

c) Water-based high solid/low solvent urethane paints used by PPG, DuPont, BASF and most other paint manufacturers are not as chemically resistant as the older paint systems but do not require time for the outgas/ aerobic cure process, as they are either catalyzed (i.e. a chemical process that cures paint) or oven-dried, but I would suggest waiting for approximately seven to ten days before any product application, which should be more than sufficient time to enable paint off gassing and aerobic curing

d) The application of a specific glaze (one that doesn’t contain silicone or wax) type product, i.e. Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze, 3M™ Perfect-It III™ Show Car Finishing Glaze, Zanio Z Polishes (do not use either Z1 or ZFX™ or Meguiar’s # 7 Show Car Glaze)this type of glaze is completely safe for any fresh paint system as they allow the solvents in an oil-based paint outgas / aerobic cure process and provide some protection for any type of paint surface.

e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish) Vehicle washing is encouraged but avoid any harsh detergents or any car wash that uses a high-pressure spray or wax

Note: The body-shop / paint manufactures know their products; seek their advice so as not to void any warranty
JonM

**zr123** · May 26, 2005, 04:00 PM

TOGWT:

Thanks for the advice!

I just hopped down to the autobody shop and spoke to the owner (my family knows him quite well). He said with the paint they use, it's completely safe to wax the vehicle 24 hours after the clear.

Infact he's throwing me in a complete detail package... and what's interesting is they're gonna be detailing the vehicle with NXT Tech Wax!

To be honest, it felt pretty darn good knowing that I use the same wax as a reputable body shop.

The only thing I'll be doing this weekend is applying a second coat of NXT...

PS: They clayed and paint cleansed the entire vehicle before painting the specific areas... I guess he had the detail in mind before he started.

Thanks for your help guys!

ZR

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
The application of a specific glaze (one that doesn’t contain silicone or wax) type product, i.e.

Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze
3M™ Perfect-It III™ Show Car Finishing Glaze
Zaino Z Polishes (do not use either Z1 or ZFX™
Meguiar’s # 7 Show Car Glaze

this type of glaze is completely safe for any fresh paint system as they allow the solvents in an oil-based paint outgas / aerobic cure process and provide some protection for any type of paint surface.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for adding a Meguiar's product at the end there.

Now I know Menzerna, 3M and Meguiar's all make products for use in body shop environments, but are you telling the world with your post that Zaino's paint Sealant, doesn't Seal the paint?

I have all the products here in my office and no where on the labels of any of these do they say, body shop safe.

Is the idea of a paint sealant to seal, or coat over the paint to protect it?

Isn't that the entire thing you Zaino and Klasse guys buy into is adding layer after layer, after layer to build up a thickness of protection on top of the paint?

If this is true, how can it not be sealing, as in coating over and thus trapping any solvents or other ingredients trying to exist the fresh paint?

Which way do you want it? The Z product is either a paint sealant, or it is not?

Please post only your own words, or include any references to the rightful author of the words you post on Meguiar's Online.

Also, please explain in detail that can be proven how the Z product can both seal paint and not seal paint at the same time.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
Newly re- painted vehicle-

Oil-based paint, lacquer or enamel and low solids paint systems are formulated with solvents (30-80% dependent upon manufacturer) once applied paint needs to dry and the solvents need to (out-gas) evaporate for sixty to ninety days (60-90) to enable the paint off gassing and aerobic curing, if the paint is covered with a conventional wax or sealant it will arrest the outgas/cure process.

c) Water-based high solid/low solvent urethane paints used by PPG, DuPont, BASF and most other paint manufacturers are not as chemically resistant as the older paint systems but do not require time for the outgas/ aerobic cure process, as they are either catalyzed (i.e. a chemical process that cures paint) or oven-dried, but I would suggest waiting for approximately seven to ten days before any product application, which should be more than sufficient time to enable paint off gassing and aerobic curing

Jon,

Where did you get the above information? Did you generate it yourself, as in your own knowledge from working in the paint industry? Or did you borrow it from someone else's writing?

Please cite your references. Please don't plagiarize other peoples work, if you got that information from a book, please list the book and page number.

Where did you get the information about catalyzed paints not being as chemically resistant as older paints? From a chemist? From a book? Please cite your references.

Thanks Jon.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish) Vehicle washing is encouraged but avoid any harsh detergents or any car wash that uses a high-pressure spray or wax

Depending on what your goal is, this is inaccurate information.

If a new paint job has any orange peel, or dirt in paint, (dip), then the common and accepted method of repairing this is to wet sand the finish, (wet sanding paper is an abrasive), and then use a compound to remove your sanding marks. Compounds are abrasives. Most of this work is done after the paint has been sprayed.

to say,

Originally posted by TOGWT
e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish)

Is ridiculous. It all depends upon what you as the owner want. I can't tell you how many body shops I have called on where the next day, after spraying the fresh paint, the painter, or the painter's helper go in and wet sand the fresh paint and apply abrasive compounds and polishes to the fresh paint in an effort to create a more perfect finish.

I know each and every day, Meguiar's Reps around the U.S., call on body shops and show guys how to wet sand, cut and buff on fresh paint using our diminishing abrasive technology, as a way to avoid using old fashioned compounds. This is a technology that others companies are only now beginning to try to copy Meguiar's success.

Originally posted by TOGWT
e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured

I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, but to make a blanket statement to avoid any kind of abrasive products doesn't take into account that the painter himself my be using an abrasive product on the paint, within 24 hours of spraying it.

After the painter is through with the wet-sanding, cutting and buffing process and assuming he hasn't swirled it all out, then there isn't a reason to use an abrasive product, or in Meguiar's case, a diminishing abrasive product but that all depends upon the condition of the finish and the owners goal.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 06:43 PM

Here's an example Jon of when the owner should use an abrasive product on their brand new paint job... Or in Meguiar's case, a diminishing abrasive,

Tom Richards recently had the hood of his Mercedes-Benz repainted, after repainting it, the hood was buffed in a manner that the following pictures will force you to cringe!

Although these swirls in the finish of Tom's Mercedes-Benz look horrendous, we will use this crime against his car's paint as an opportunity to show people how to remove swirls both by hand and the Meguiar's G100 Dual Action Polisher.

Often times when the topic of removing swirls is being discussed on our discussion forum, or some other detailing forum, it centers around the dual action polisher, foam buffing pads and somebody's compound or polish. Yet many people don't own a dual action polisher. So here at Meguiar's Garage, we like to show people how to use the what they already own... their hands!

Like most detailing enthusiasts, I personally love a challenge, and with Tom's car, I believe most people would agree, his car's finish presents a challenge!

BEFORE - 700 Pixel-wide cropped out section from an un-touched, original photo of rotary buffer swirls in a clear coat finish.

Using some painters tape, we taped-off a section of the hood to separate the before and after results. Then, we applied three, well worked in applications of Meguiar's ScratchX all applied by hand using Meguiar's High-Tech Applicator Pad

The secret to removing swirls by hand using Meguiar's ScratchX is all in your technique. You see in order to remove swirls out of your car's finish, you need to remove a little bit of paint. If we we're to look at a horizontal view of what gross rotary buffer swirls look like in the paint, it would look something like the diagram below. In order to remove these below surface defects, (swirls), you need to remove enough paint from the finish to level the upper surface with the *****t depths of the swirls until you've restored the finish to a flat, level surface.

To do this by hand with ScratchX, you need to,

* Apply to a small section at a time
* First spread the ScratchX evenly over the area you're going to work (before working it in)
* Work the microscopic diminishing abrasives against the finish applying a little passion behind the applicator pad
* Repeat this process with multiple applications after first removing the residue from each application after working it against the finish

Remember that Meguiar's paint cleaners, like ScratchX do not need to dry before removing. Drying adds no benefit. The only Meguiar's paint products that need to dry before removing are Meguiar's waxes.

Technique Tip

The question is often asked,

"Which direction should I move my hand when applying a Meguiar's paint cleaner?"

A common mis-conception, often espoused on other discussion forums, or by some car care product manufactures, is the technique of only rubbing a product in a certain direction to keep all of your scratches going in the same direction.

Meguiar's teaches that if the products you're using are non-abrasive, that is they are not instilling scratches into the finish, as such, it shouldn't matter which direction you move your hand!

If the products you're using are inflicting scratches into your car's finish, the correct thing to do is to stop using the product! Don't try to camouflage the scratches to your eyes by instilling them in straight-lines as determined by the movement of your hand.

ScratchX can be applied using straight-lines or circular motion and for this particular demonstration we used a combination of both.

Removing ScratchX using Meguiar's Supreme Shine Microfiber after working the product against the finish until the product has broken down, turned somewhat clear and begun to dissipate.

At Meguiar's Saturday Detailing 101 classes, we go through a power point presentation that covers a wide spectrum of detailing topics, one of which is Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle , which includes;

Step 1 Wash
Step 2 Clean
Step 3 Polish
Step 4 Protect
Step 5 Maintain

After cleaning the paint with a paint cleaner like ScratchX, we then apply a pure polish, in this case, Deep Crystal Polish which is a non-abrasive pure polish.

In Meguiar's line, we offer two types of polishes, cleaner/polishes, which contain a diminishing abrasive, and pure polishes, which are completely non-abrasive and are used solely for the purpose of creating brilliant gloss. Deep Crystal Polish is a pure polish.

The way you apply a pure polish is akin to applying a skin lotion to your skin. That is you apply the polish to a small section at a time, work the product in thoroughly.

After thoroughly, (but gently with care and passion), remove any excess polish with a clean, soft premium quality microfiber polishing cloth or 100% cotton towel.

Like ScratchX a paint cleaner, it is not necessary to let a pure polish like Deep Crystal Polish dry before removing it. Allowing a polish to dry will not add anything beneficial to the process, so after you work it in well, go a head and remove it.

After applying the Tech Wax Paste and allowing it to dry, we removed it using a Supreme Shine Microfiber polishing cloth and the Tom backed his Mercedes-Benz out into the sun where everyone could look at the results and see with their own two eyes what can be accomplished by hand with the right products and the correct techniques.

Here's the owner Tom inspecting closely!

And here I am capturing the results with our Sony Digital which does an excellent job of capture swirls in the sun.

Before

After

Perfect? No.

dramatically improved? Yes!

Most importantly, we fixed by hand what someone else inflicted with a rotary buffer.

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish)

JonM

The above photos of the buffer swirls in the fresh paint on the Mercedes-Benz that we removed using a diminishing abrasive paint cleaner, (some people call this a polish), demonstrates you can't always believe what you read on the Internet and to be carful of who's advise you follow.

The paint on the Mercedes-Benz was fresh paint, it was right at the 30 day mark. We used a product Meguiar's offers that contains a microscopic diminishing abrasive to remove horrendous buffer swirls put in by the workers at a professional body shop that are supposed to know what they're doing, but obviously didn't, and to this day probably still don't.

To say,

Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured

is too general, choosing the right product should be based upon the results of your surface evaluation, not what someone posts to a discussion forum.

We could have removed those swirls the day the owner brought the car home from the body shop, so time isn't really the issue here. The issue is Meguiar's always teaches people to evaluate the finish first, this will then help you to choose the right products to do the job right the first time, and in the owners situation, to do the job right the second time.

You can definitely use safe paint cleaners by Meguiar's that have the ability to carefully abrade the finish on fresh paint, you just need to insure the condition of the paint requires these product in the first place by your surface evaluation.

Let's hope that zr123's painter, and the rest of the staff at this particular body shop use the right products with the right techniques to do the job right in the first place so zr123 will have a show car finish from the get go.

If not, then we can help you to correct the problem. We won't however tell you to use a paint sealer/protectant on fresh paint, and we will tell you about products that are body shop safe in our Professional Line that can safely be used on paint that has been sprayed sometimes the same day. (depends on the paint system, some paint systems can be sanded and buffed within an hour of being sprayed).

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish)

Just to point out that the term polish as Jon has used it in the above statement can be misleading as Meguiar's only uses diminishing abrasives in our products, which are formulated to remove defects from paint gently and in a controlled manner. Specifically, when we talk about Meguiar's polishes, Meguiar's offers our customers two types of polishes, Cleaner/Polishes and Pure Polishes. Our cleaner polishes use diminishing abrasive technology pioneered by Meguiar's to safely remove below surface defects, while our pure polishes are completely non-abrasive and are for creating brilliant gloss, clarity and richness of color.

Two completely different product for two completely different requirements.

The below information on Meguiar's polishes is from this thread,

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle

Step-3 Polishing

Meguiar's offers two types of polishes, Cleaner Polishes and Pure Polishes. Cleaner Polishes are for removing very light or fine defects while restoring a crystal clear, smooth high gloss surface. Pure polishes are for finishes already in excellent condition and are for the purpose or creating brilliant high gloss with deep dark reflections.

If you look in Webster's Dictionary under the word polish, one of the definitions they include reads like this:

"A preparation that is used to produce gloss, and often color for the protection and decoration of a surface."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Pure Polishes. Meguiar's pure polishes are designed to create brilliant high gloss while preparing the surface for the application of a protective coating. Meguiar's pure polishes accomplish this without the use of abrasives.

Another definition found in Webster's Dictionary for polish is,

"To make smooth and glossy by friction."

This definition best describes Meguiar's Cleaner/Polishes. Meguiar's cleaner polishes are formulated to very gently abrade the surface with Meguiar's Diminishing Abrasive TM and Buffered Abrasive TM technology to remove the finest defects and create a perfectly smooth, high gloss finish.

Depending on what type of paint you're working on, traditional paints like lacquers and enamels, or catalyzed clear coats, Meguiar's has the products specifically designed to work on both types of paints, not to mention many other surfaces such as plastics and polyester resins (Fiberglas Gel-coats).

Meguiar's Trade Secret Polishing Oils
The trade secret oils Meguiar's uses in both types of polishes are unique to the industry and to this day have never been surpassed for creating deep, dark reflections and brilliant high gloss by any of our competitors in over 100 years.

The oils Meguiar's uses are also important in maintaining the original condition of the paint by filling in the naturally occurring microscopic pores and surface imperfections thus preventing detrimental substances and elements as simple as water, or worse, acid-rain, from entering into these pores and microscopic surface imperfections thus causing oxidation and chemical etching. These oils act to replace the original resins as they wear away through natural processes.

When paint is new, it is the most impermeable it will ever be, this means it is a very smooth non-porous, continuous film. With age, exposure to the environment and micro-scratching caused by day-in, day-out wear and tear, your paint develops micro-fissures in the surface along with other defects. These micro-fissures and other defects act to make the continuous film or coating of paint more porous. As this happens, your car's finish becomes more vulnerable to corrosive elements that will attack and degrade your finish.

Remember, waxes, synthetic or otherwise, are meant to be Sacrificial Barriers with the intended purpose sealing the surface, while blocking those things that would attack your paint, from coming into direct contact with the paint.

"Waxes protect your finish by sacrificing themselves so that your paint doesn't have to"

An analogy is your skin. In the same way you can clean, polish and protect your skin, you can clean, polish and protect your car's finish. Soap can be used to clean your skin and remove dirt from the pores. Skin lotions can be used to moisturize your skin, conditioning it and making it more clear and beautiful. Protection products like lotions used to protect hands from exposure to chemicals and UV protectants can be applied to help protect your skin from the things that would attack your skin if these harmful things could come into direct contact with your skin.

While human skin and automotive paint are very different, the analogy is very similar. With Meguiar's, you can:

* Wash your car's finish to remove unwanted and accumulated dirt contaminants
* Clean your paint with our special paint cleaners and cleaner/polishes
* Polish your paint with our pure polishes to create unequaled beauty
* Protect your paint with our advanced paint protection products
* Maintain your car's finish using our fast and easy to use maintenance products.

The unique thing about Meguiar's highly specialized trade secret oils is their ability to restore and maintain the Optical Clarity of both single stage and clear coat paints in a way that waxes alone cannot match, (both natural and synthetic), the results of which are demonstrated in side-by-side comparisons.

Vehicle washing is encouraged but avoid any harsh detergents

JonM

We're glad to see you post something that agrees with Meguiar's decades of teaching and education. Meguiar's offers a number of car washes all of which are non-detergent and we try to help people to avoid using detergent dish soaps to wash their car that others on other discussion forums, and companies that sell polishes recommend. Washing your car with dish soap is what we think of as moving backwards in the paint polishing process if the goal is a clear, glossy, shiny reflective finish.

Some of our car washes are actually formulated to be used on fresh paint in body shop environments, and they state this on the label. M0016 and M6201 are both body shop safe and formulated to be used on fresh paint.

**TOGWT** · May 26, 2005, 08:02 PM

Newly re- painted vehicle-
Oil-based paint, lacquer or enamel and low solids paint systems are formulated with solvents (30-80% dependant upon manufacturer) once applied paint needs to dry and the solvents need to (out-gas) evaporate for sixty to ninety days (60-90) to enable the paint off gassing and aerobic curing, if the paint is covered with a conventional wax or sealant it will arrest the outgas/cure process.

c) Water-based high solid/low solvent urethane paints used by PPG, DuPont, BASF and most other paint manufacturers are not as chemically resistant as the older paint systems but do not require time for the outgas/ aerobic cure process, as they are either catalyzed (i.e. a chemical process that cures paint) or oven-dried, but I would suggest waiting for approximately seven to ten days before any product application, which should be more than sufficient time to enable paint off gassing and aerobic curing
[i ]http://p2library.nfesc.navy.mil/P2_Opportunity_Handbook/4_7.html

Plus water-based borne paints are softer than acrylic oil based paints. The quick forced dry process using higher curing temperatures causes the paint to dry fast, but not as hard. As a result, these paints scratch more easily. Water borne paints are also more porous than conventional acrylic finishes. [/i]

d) The application of a specific glaze (one that doesn’t contain silicone or wax) type product, i.e. Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze, 3M™ Perfect-It III™ Show Car Finishing Glaze, Zanio Z Polishes (do not use either Z1 or ZFX™ or Meguiar’s # 7 Show Car Glaze)this type of glaze is completely safe for any fresh paint system as they allow the solvents in an oil-based paint outgas / aerobic cure process and provide some protection for any type of paint surface.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: There's alot of misinformation about waiting three months for the paint to cure. I am a custom painter by trade. I am very familar with Dupont, PPG and all the other paint manufacturers. The most I personally would wait on fresh "aftermarket body shop" paint before polishing with Zaino Show Car Polish is 1 week. That's more than sufficient curing time. Zaino contains no wax, silicone oil or abrasives. The new paints are catalyzed. A chemical reaction cures the paint. The older lacquers and enamels needed time for the solvents to release. This is not the case anymore. Believe me if that paint need 3 months to dry than it will never dry. Just the facts. Sal Zaino
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See also- http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...75&forum_id=10

e) Abrasive polish should be avoided until the paint has cured (an abrasive polish will not necessarily harm the soft new paint but unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish) Vehicle washing is encouraged but avoid any harsh detergents or any car wash that uses a high-pressure spray or wax

I’m not sure what caused such a heated response to an opinion, but no matter what the opinion, there is always an opposing and often equally valid response. I did state “unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish” if an individual thinks its necessary then so be it. Many readers have insufficient experience to properly evaluate a surface and make a judgement to use an abrasive on a somewhat soft paint and by doing so may cause enough ‘damage’ to void any warranty given, so this advice errs on the safe side I have never subscibed to the use of a detrgent washing up liquid or any other harsh detergents to wash a vehicle paint surface, again it's one mans opinion and its a recommendation he makes that it should be used before the application of his products

Note: The body-shop / paint manufactures know their products; seek their advice so as not to void any warranty
JonM

**Mike Phillips** · May 26, 2005, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by TOGWT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: There's alot of misinformation about waiting three months for the paint to cure. I am a custom painter by trade. I am very familiar with Dupont, PPG and all the other paint manufacturers.

The most I personally would wait on fresh "aftermarket body shop" paint before polishing with Zaino Show Car Polish is 1 week. That's more than sufficient curing time.

Zaino contains no wax, silicone oil or abrasives. The new paints are catalyzed. A chemical reaction cures the paint. The older lacquers and enamels needed time for the solvents to release. This is not the case anymore. Believe me if that paint need 3 months to dry than it will never dry. Just the facts.

Sal Zaino
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JonM

I don't buy it.

Name a paint manufacture that states it's okay to seal fresh paint before 30 days. The company that manufactures the product knows it's limitations better than anyone else and their position on their product should carry the most weight, not someone else's opinion off the Internet.

Just because a person paints cars doesn't make them an expert on any paint manufactures paint system. The Mercedes-Benz with the swirls was painted by a painter, and it doesn't look like this painter was an expert on polishing paint.

Also, just because modern basecoat/clearcoat paint systems are catalyzed doesn't mean they still don't use solvents that need time to outgas.

It's really common sense to understand that if you take a freshly painted car, park it in an enclosed space, like your garage, and then close the doors and come back in a few hours, you will smell something in the air. That something is the odor of solvents evaporating out of the paint. How can any one person know when full evaporation has taken place? The answer is you can't that's why paint manufactures recommend waiting at least 30 days before applying anything to the paint that could seal the surface, and thus block or trap these solvents from escaping.

I read the thread on CorvetteForum previously as I follow threads over their by you and others. Just because someone posts their opinion on a forum, it doesn't make it true.

We strive to present accurate information on this forum, not opinions on what's accurate. Meguiar's always recommends following each paint manufactures recommendations as to how long to wait before applying a product that seals the paint, or the painters recommendation as the painter is responsible for their work. We cannot allow our members to post recommendations and opinions that go contrary to this.

Jon, you stated that the Zaino product is safe to apply to fresh paint, this implies that it doesn't seal the paint. Again, here's a previous post in this thread...

Originally posted by TOGWT
The application of a specific glaze (one that doesn’t contain silicone or wax) type product, i.e.

Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze
3M™ Perfect-It III™ Show Car Finishing Glaze
Zaino Z Polishes (do not use either Z1 or ZFX™
Meguiar’s # 7 Show Car Glaze

this type of glaze is completely safe for any fresh paint system as they allow the solvents in an oil-based paint outgas / aerobic cure process and provide some protection for any type of paint surface.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for adding a Meguiar's product at the end there.

Now I know Menzerna, 3M and Meguiar's all make products for use in body shop environments, but are you telling the world with your post that Zaino's paint Sealant, doesn't Seal the paint?

I have all the products here in my office and nowhere on the labels of any of these do they say, body shop safe.

Is the idea of a paint sealant to seal, or coat over the paint to protect it?

Isn't that the entire thing you Zaino and Klasse guys buy into is adding layer after layer, after layer to build up a thickness of protection on top of the paint?

If this is true, how can it not be sealing, as in coating over and thus trapping any solvents or other ingredients trying to exist the fresh paint?

Which way do you want it? The Z product is either a paint sealant, or it is not?

Note: Please post only your own words, or include any references to the rightful author of the words you post on Meguiar's Online.

Also, please explain in detail that can be proven how the Z product can both seal paint and not seal paint at the same time.

**TOGWT** · May 27, 2005, 08:05 AM

Now that’s what I call a response to a twenty line post-

1. These are a few Google searches on curing paint-

Page not found - Automotive Service Association - National

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/sept99/collision.htm

http://www.optimumaircorp.com/

Home

http://www.autobodypro.com/tektips/articles/infrared.htm

5 STAR ADVANTAGE specializes in manufacturing automotive paint, auto body and refinishing products for the automotive repair industry.

2. I read the thread on Corvette Forum previously as I follow threads over their by you and others. Just because someone posts their opinion on a forum, it doesn't make it true.

[I have absolutely no argument that anyone who states an opinion on a forum or anywhere else makes that opinion truth; it’s an opinion no more, no less.

Sal Zaino is the business owner of Zaino products and if he makes a statement about his products I tend to think he would know that product and its limitations /capabilities better than anyone]

3. Also, please explain in detail that can be proven how the Z product can both seal paint and not seal paint at the same time.

[I do not presume to have enough knowledge of the chemical makeup of the polymers etc used in the formulation of Zanio’s products to even attempt an opinion on this question, nor is it my place to do so. The only person who would be qualified to answer would be Sal Zanio and/or his chemist

I use a car cover on my vehicles all the time, they protect the paint against inclimate weather by covering it and yet it allows air to exit the cover as evidenced by no rain or condensation found when removed]

4. We strive to present accurate information on this forum, not opinions on what's accurate. Meguiar's always recommends following each paint manufactures recommendations as to how long to wait before applying a product that seals the paint, or the painters recommendation as the painter is responsible for their work.

[Note: The body-shop / paint manufactures know their products; seek their advice so as not to void any warranty]

5. We cannot allow our members to post recommendations and opinions that go contrary to this.

[See above “Note”]

Opinions [: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter]
[: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge]
[: a generally held view]
[: a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert]

“I’m not sure what caused such a heated response to an opinion, but no matter what the opinion, there is always an opposing and often equally valid response. I did state “unless it’s absolutely necessary I would avoid polish” if an individual thinks its necessary then so be it. Many readers have insufficient experience to properly evaluate a surface and make a judgement to use an abrasive on a somewhat soft paint and by doing so may cause enough ‘damage’ to void any warranty given, so this advice errs on the safe side I have never subscribed to the use of a detergent washing up liquid or any other harsh detergents to wash a vehicle paint surface, again it's one mans opinion and its a recommendation he makes that it should be used before the application of his products”

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