At a loss!

[united]

Gday everyone, greetings from Australia!

I come in hope for some advice and answers regarding my detailing attempt on my car, to rid it of fine swirl marks over the entire car due to neglect and carelessness! I also have some stubborn water stains, particularly around my washers in the bonnet!

It was my first attempt ever at detailing, and i was not familiar with anything till i started doing some research, and getting to terms with the whole process and lingo regarding detailing.

I went out and bought a clay kit, ultimate polish and compound and a DA power system for my drill with the accompanying pads. So i've invested time and money, but alas i did not get the result i was hoping for! So many factors at play, was it my lack of skill (and possible poor prep work) or are these tools and materials not upto the job when it comes to fixing my car.......Lots of unanswered questions!

I'm not sure where i went wrong if it was me, other than admitting that i may have rushed a bit on the prep side of things, but i figure i would have done a half decent job at least. The scratches are rather fine, yet i still did not really get rid of them, i am tempted to say i did improve it albeit slightly.

The water marks were reduced i believe, but i have an outline around the edge of where the water stains are which is noticeable at a certain angle the light reflects it.

I pretty much did as the videos suggest, and the videos seem to clear up the same type of defects i have, but i did not achieve it unfortunately. I was wondering why is it that sometimes the compound was hard to rub off, and would blop together in some spots, and other times i would be able to buff it off relatively easily, even though as i later found out there was some hazing left from the product (hard to spot anything until you actually get the car back into sunglight out from the garage)

Are you meant to be pressing up against the car with the DA buffer and slowly gliding across at a reasonable speed? Or do you want it to be just touching the surface to produce less resistance and skim off the face of the paint?

It was disheartening, although had it's enjoyable moments, but alas i did not finish the job as i'd hoped I'm probbably going to give it another go, just focusing on a small section and see if it can bring up good, but it feels like nothing is really happening........not to the extent i need it to anyway.

Sorry for long post but some pitch and advice would be welcomed!

[The Guz]

Re: At a loss!

What tool are you using the DA power system or a dual action polisher?

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Yep, the DA power system. Not sure what revz i had it to, but i did vary it from moderate to fast, just to see if results would differ.

[Eldorado2k]

Re: At a loss!

He's using the DA Power system with his drill.

@United. When you're going across the paint with the compound, you're supposed to be applying a moderate amount of pressure while slowly making your way along. Not a crazy amount, but just enough "passion" to be able to remove those fine swirls & scratches. Make sure the pad is slowly spinning the time. If it's spinning so fast it could be because you're not applying enough pressure.. But if it's bearly, I mean Bearly spinning, it's because you're applying too much pressure.. You want to find that sweet spot where it's spinning with a good balance of speed and power.

Also, after priming the pad with the initial circle around the pad amount, all that's needed is maybe 3 small dots for every following application. Work the compound for about 4 sideways passes, then 4 vertical overlapping passes, and then 4 more sideways passes covering a total area of about 16"x16" inches, then wipe off the compound. Good luck!

[Eldorado2k]

Re: At a loss!

Look on the back label of the DA Power System packaging, it should have a recommended speed setting for you to turn your drill to.

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Thanks for the response Eldorado2k, appreciate your time.

I'm going to give it another shot i think, unfortunately the buffer, pad and/or the compound might not be enough for me and i will have to make a call to further chase products or simply wax it up and leave it be............

[Don]

Re: At a loss!

Thanks for the response Eldorado2k, appreciate your time.

I'm going to give it another shot i think, unfortunately the buffer, pad and/or the compound might not be enough for me and i will have to make a call to further chase products or simply wax it up and leave it be............

Don't give up just yet, there is a bit of a learning curve when you go from just being a "wax spreader" to a "detailer." Start with SMALL areas, don't try to correct too big of an area at once, it's a waste of time, effort and will just discourage you, try a 12" X 12" to start. Use the same amount of down force on the tool that you would with your bare hand as a guide, more heavily damaged areas will need more pressure, areas with lighter defects = less pressure, get it?

Most (if not all) Megs products are meant to be used sparingly, less is better and too much will cause issues and extra work. Most important of all, read the forum and ASK QUESTIONS. It's the best way, that and just keep practicing.

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Wise words Don, you got it.

I aim to focus on just one panel, small one at that, do a quick wash, clay and compound on it. Taking my time and perfecting the technique

[The Guz]

Re: At a loss!

Sounds like you may have reached the limitation of the tool. Paint hardness as well as the depth of the defects could also be contributing factors. Be sure to clean your pad on the fly as well.

If the product id drying on the paint, then you are over working it.

Good thread if you have not already read it.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?56799-Meguiar-s-Quik-Tips-Video-Series-The-DA-Power-System

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Thanks Guz.

One thing i've already picked up on that i need to improve, is cleaning the pad on the fly. They're 4 inch foam pads as you'd probably know, and i was wondering would the terry cloth towel method be my best bet for cleaning on the fly? I gave them a quick warm water wash last night, just squeezing it all out under the tap, and drying at the moment. Fair bit of product came out actually!

I've also last night picked up on what you say about paint hardness, from what i read last night, if you have alot of fine swirl marks, it suggests a softer paint?

I'm not experienced at all so all my rationale comes from reading and understanding and applying logic! Given you can only see the swirl marks at certain angles and predominantly in sunlight, would that suggest they are very shallow, and i would be tinkering on the softer paint side?

Now what irks me is exactly that thread you've linked! THe defects they have demonstrated to fix, are arguably worse than mine when it comes to swirl marks! I have the addition of watermarks which it doesnt seem like they do. Black cars.....

Now that i think about it, what if the extra steps of polishing and waxing, actually filled the scratches, didnt actually remove them permanently. It would be good to clarify that, i dont mean to expose Meguiars products or anything but it would help customers realise what they're actually getting!

[united]

Re: At a loss!

I'm thinking, small sections, patience and bit more axial pressure on the drill........and i'm hopeful i can do it!

Thanks for everyones time and advice

[Top Gear]

Re: At a loss!

United, welcome to the site. I think you're in a really great place with this, as you've got a good starting kit and you're approaching it the right way. Don't be overwhelmed by all the variables and advice given here. That said, let me pick up on some of your comments:

(#1) ...The scratches are rather fine, yet i still did not really get rid of them, i am tempted to say i did improve it albeit slightly. ... The water marks were reduced i believe, but i have an outline around the edge of where the water stains are which is noticeable at a certain angle the light reflects it. ... Are you meant to be pressing up against the car with the DA buffer and slowly gliding across at a reasonable speed? Or do you want it to be just touching the surface to produce less resistance and skim off the face of the paint? ... (and later in #10) I've also last night picked up on what you say about paint hardness, from what i read last night, if you have alot of fine swirl marks, it suggests a softer paint?

None of us can know if your paint is soft or hard, but the results you're getting given the process you've described indicate you could go more aggressive, perhaps a lot more aggressive, in order to get what you want. However, that's where the need outstrips the products you are using, as well as the patience you may have, and where your natural fear in doing harm kicks in. I know exactly how that feels.

As for products, Ultimate Compound on a foam pad with a drill DA is a great way to get some exercise, maybe work out some frustrations, but chances are the combo is not cutting very much, if at all. You'll go through the multi-step process and wind up with a great polish and wax, for sure, but the underlying surface has yet to be scratched, so to speak. You can get a more aggressive pad (say a Meg's microfiber cutting pad), get a more aggressive liquid (say M100, M101 or M105), get a higher-powered DA machine (like the Porter Cable), use light wet-sanding instead of compounding per se, or use all of the above for really tough situations - as I have.

You're not doing anything wrong, particularly. I'd give it some time so you can do various tests and combinations to see how your own paint reacts to your own techniques. It may take a while to figure out some approaches. Except for sanding, there's little chance you will ruin anything using Meguiar's products - that's a "hump" I had to get over. Watching some non-Meg's videos will help you see how easy and gentle you may be doing it compared to a pro detailer who comes in and knocks something out. I'm not saying just lay into the paint with the tool on max! I'm saying devote this year to doing various tests and trying different things. Something will click and you'll never see those swirls or water spots again

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Thanks Top Gear

Yeah i've got some tinkering to do, worst part has been not driving the car 2 weeks now! But indont want to rush it either.

Just as luck would have it, a new friend ive made, happens to be rather familiar with detailing and will assist and show me the ropes! But yeah ive been researching fair bit, it makes more sense by the day.

[united]

Re: At a loss!

Bit of an update!*

So i went back out there for round 2 determined to make it work and what i have found is i did not give ot near enough firm pressure up against the panels for the DA to work. It appears i have removes most of the fine swirls at the very top of the clear coat.

Inspections reveal scratches remaining, which have mostly been felt by finger nail and i assume the DA power system and Ultimatw Compound arent capable of removing? Thats what i tell myself to make me feel better anyway....

It was a grueling 10-12 hrs and that was just for half the
Vehicle! Doing the other half todaty. I was thinking can i just wax the car when im done cuttig or do i have to wash clay and then wax? Apparantely i dont have to polish i can jump straight to waxing. Btw its a ***** to do the roof! Had to stand on a chair. Didnt get much of the water spots off the roof

I know my hood water spots are etxhed cuz they have not budged past the point of correction j initially achieved.

[The Guz]

Re: At a loss!

Sounds like you are making some progress.

Scratches you can feel with your finger nail can't be removed by compounding/polishing. They can be made to look better.

What type of vehicle are you working on?