Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

[Meticulous-Detail]

Yesterday I had an infamous black 2012 Audi A8, with heavy swirls and vertical RIDs. Customer had car detailed last month by car wash and it looks like they used a brillo pad on a rotary, it was that bad. I was using a 5 inch backing plate on the Meg's MT300 with a Megs MF 5.5 CD, speed was 4800, bumped it to 5200 and also tried a slower speed with no luck. I used the KB method of spritzing water on the panel to reactivate the 105, I also compounded each section of the car 2-3 times, cleaned my pads with a pad brush on the fly and used 4-6 5.5 CD's and 4-6 4 inch CD's on the entire car. I also tried the new megs burgundy with 105 and HD Cut, HD Cut with Megs MF CD, and 105 and HD Cut with yellow foam BnS pad. Swirls and haze was removed, but the back and forth (vertical scratches) still remained. Customer and his friends were happy and impressed, but I wasn't. Thoughts ? Maybe pick up some M101? Lambs wool for the MT300?

[Selectchoice]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

Bad RIDS, which it looks like you experienced here, can often require wet sanding to remove.

It can be a safer approach too, because you are better able to control the level of paint removal and limit the area of attack to just the RIDS.

If the customer and their friend were impressed, then you've done your job.

Total perfection sometimes cannot be achieved, as frustrating as it can be. Even if perfection can be achieved, do they want to pay you accordingly for your time and skill?

[The Guz]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

Maybe an xtra cutting disc or possibly adding M101 or M100 to your arsenal.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

I don't feel so alone! I've reached a similar wall using UC on the Xtra Cut MF at full speed and pressure on my diamond-hard paint. I intend to move to M101 for those situations, but I'm not expecting a massive jump in abrasive power from UC to M101. I've also given up and gone to sanding, which works so much faster, and those marks/hazes are easy to pull out with the regular Cutting/D300 combo or others.

[greg0303]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

As others mentioned above, sanding would a faster, safer and more controlled approach than heavy compounding. You could basically check defect removal progress often, after just couple strokes. About six years ago I had to correct RIDS on vehicle's hood, after tree branches landed on it during a storm, and wasted a lot of time using M105 first with cutting foam pad and then wool pad.

[Meticulous-Detail]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

I have only wet sanded isolated scratches and filled chips by hand, never an entire car, but yes I think wet sanding would have yielded better results just not at that skill level and it would have taken 2 days to do this car. This was a mobile detail.

Can someone recommend a beginners type wet sanding kit? How does the Megs Unigrit System work? http://www.buffdaddy.com/unigrit/discs/about

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

Total perfection sometimes cannot be achieved, as frustrating as it can be. Even if perfection can be achieved, do they want to pay you accordingly for your time and skill?

Tremendous wisdom in the above statement. So often we feel this compelling desire to achieve perfection when, in reality, there are plenty of reasons conspiring against us.

Maybe an xtra cutting disc or possibly adding M101 or M100 to your arsenal.

We see as much as a 20% gain in cutting ability simply by switching to the Xtra Cut disc, all else being equal. They certainly are something to keep on hand for those times when additional firepower is needed.

I have only wet sanded isolated scratches and filled chips by hand, never an entire car, but yes I think wet sanding would have yielded better results just not at that skill level and it would have taken 2 days to do this car. This was a mobile detail.

Can someone recommend a beginners type wet sanding kit? How does the Megs Unigrit System work? http://www.buffdaddy.com/unigrit/discs/about

Well, the notion of a beginners wet sanding kit isn't really practical as with any wet sanding you have the potential to remove measurable amounts of clear coat. Even with 3000 grit if done a bit heavy handed. But, as has been mentioned, properly done wet sanding can actually be less invasive to the paint, primarily because there is zero heat introduced when sanding versus the potential for damaging heat to quickly develop with continued aggressive compounding. And a nicely refined sanding mark, like 2500 or 3000 grit, is generally far, far easier to buff out than those really nasty RIDS that fight you every inch of the way. Of course, on this particular A8, wet sanding the entire car could add many hours to the project that the customer may not have been willing to pay for.

That said, using a 3000 grit finishing disc via DA can be a fantastic alternative to just grinding away with a DA or rotary. Check out this article on using 3000 grit in a variety of situations. As a professional detailer it's a skill set that you really should learn. And hey, since you're already shopping at buffdaddy.com, why not sign up for the NXT Institute training we'll be doing on the East Coast in September? You'll learn so much about wet sanding and advanced DA polishing techniques from Kevin Brown, Jason Rose and myself that it will make your head spin!

[DasBurninator]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

What about doing something like KB mentions and using M205 instead of M105 for the longer working time with the xtra cut pads?

[Top Gear]

Re: Need more cut than 105 and a MF cutting disc

I haven't needed to sand a whole car, but I've dry-sanded small areas (again, hard paint, and my own car) with 3M 1500 and 3000 papers, using the very lightest feather pressure, not a stroke more than needed, and with laser-focus on what I'm doing. I discovered an MF pad is a perfect backer, easy to hold, soft and weightless, rather than being a hard and weighted block, and the fibers won't hurt anything where they overlap the paper. So simple. Either I lightly scuff with 3000 for minor defects, or start with 1500 for deeper defects, maybe follow with the 3000, then do the pulling. Even the 1500 dry marks/haze pull out instantly with my Cutting/D300 combo.

Many members (perhaps including M. Stoops) will be horrified at this There are threads here and elsewhere talking all about sanding, and it's not for the faint of heart. Doing small areas with 1500/3000 dry is easy enough and not messy like wet-sanding, but also forces me to work the problem, rather than allowing myself to indiscriminately sand and sand away because I might want a whole panel to be perfect. I'm not trying to remove orange peel, and I'm not working in a hurry. If I had soft paint, I probably wouldn't even think about sanding, but then, it wouldn't be necessary in the first place. The Ungrit damp sanding discs seem like a great option, and I've almost ordered them, but it's hard to see how that method wouldn't be far more aggressive, that is, using the DA instead of careful feather-light pressure by hand. Anyway, I hesitate to call what I'm doing "sanding", except that sandpaper is obviously involved