need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

[KIA HYBRID]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

luck must be on my side..no swirls or cobwebs..i'm here in Georgia where the sun shine bright..i look for them(swirls & cobwebs) everyday.i have not did anything to the car yet.but wash and dry.

[Top Gear]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

It's been proven that a full syntethic will outlast a carnauba based wax. That is no myth.

Prove it, then. You can't. All you'll find are apocryphal and irrelevant comparisons, apples and oranges. I respect everyone's experience and knowledge, when it is experience and knowledge, but this issue is a total BS myth perpetuated by people on boards like this who really should know better.

Besides, your synwaxes do not last as long as you guys assume they do, and all waxes need to be boosted at least every few weeks, if not more often for a daily driver, especially if non-garaged, especially if in a hot environment, and especially if dark. No wax on the market is going to last beyond a few weeks at 100%, not where I live. Anyone on these boards who somehow expects their waxjob to stay perfectly fresh for months and months and months with no maintenance as some form of proof that "it lasts longer", is someone whose "advice" is meaningless to me and the thousands, or millions, of other people reading these forums. That goes double for someone who is not detailing a dark or black car at a show car level.

If Ultimate or NXT is someone's favorite wax based on their own comparisons, that's fine with me, no argument. But don't assume you're right in presuming Gold Class, Yellow #26, or any other carnauba/syn blend, is in any way inferior or lesser than or does not last or requires re-waxing significantly more often, because you are wrong. Worse still, do not presume that Ultimate or NXT are the right waxes for everyone in every situation for every vehicle, because they are not.

[C8N]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?6825-The-Squeak-Test-How-to-test-for-the-presence-of-wax/page3

Post #22

"if your quick detail spray becomes a bit more difficult to wipe off, that's a good indication that it's getting thin and is due for a fresh application."

This is a pretty old post and I am not sure if this stance has changed.
But just in case anyone is interested since we are on the topic of durability of waxes.

[The Guz]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...e-of-wax/page3
Post #22

"if your quick detail spray becomes a bit more difficult to wipe off, that's a good indication that it's getting thin and is due for a fresh application."

This is a pretty old post and I am not sure if this stance has changed.
But just in case anyone is interested since we are on the topic of durability of waxes.

Good link.

[wifpd4]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

There are so many variables that influence the longevity of a coat of wax. I do believe the literature and comments from Meguiar's employees about the potential longevity of Ultimate Wax. An example of the sales literature when Ultimate Wax was introduced:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?46204-Ultimate-Wax&p=439865&viewfull=1#post439865

Whether the comments about a specific synthetic would apply to all synthetics in general, is unlikely. I do use Ultimate Liquid Wax most often, if not always, on vehicles for other folks.

[davey g-force]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Prove it, then. You can't. All you'll find are apocryphal and irrelevant comparisons, apples and oranges. I respect everyone's experience and knowledge, when it is experience and knowledge, but this issue is a total BS myth perpetuated by people on boards like this who really should know better.

Besides, your synwaxes do not last as long as you guys assume they do, and all waxes need to be boosted at least every few weeks, if not more often for a daily driver, especially if non-garaged, especially if in a hot environment, and especially if dark. No wax on the market is going to last beyond a few weeks at 100%, not where I live. Anyone on these boards who somehow expects their waxjob to stay perfectly fresh for months and months and months with no maintenance as some form of proof that "it lasts longer", is someone whose "advice" is meaningless to me and the thousands, or millions, of other people reading these forums. That goes double for someone who is not detailing a dark or black car at a show car level.

If Ultimate or NXT is someone's favorite wax based on their own comparisons, that's fine with me, no argument. But don't assume you're right in presuming Gold Class, Yellow #26, or any other carnauba/syn blend, is in any way inferior or lesser than or does not last or requires re-waxing significantly more often, because you are wrong. Worse still, do not presume that Ultimate or NXT are the right waxes for everyone in every situation for every vehicle, because they are not.

I'm curious: Do you think that the official Meguiar's statement that UW is their "longest lasting wax" is BS as well?

Also, I don't think that anyone has suggested that Gold Class, Yellow #26, or any other carnauba/syn blend are inferior to UW / NXT - only that they do not last as long. And I think it would be plain silly to suggest UW / NXT are the right waxes for everyone. That's why other choices exist. The main reason people go for carnaubas, or carnauba blends is because of the looks they impart to the paint - darker colors in particular. There are plenty of other reasons too, not least of which is just plain personal preference.

[The Guz]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Prove it, then. You can't. All you'll find are apocryphal and irrelevant comparisons, apples and oranges. I respect everyone's experience and knowledge, when it is experience and knowledge, but this issue is a total BS myth perpetuated by people on boards like this who really should know better.

Besides, your synwaxes do not last as long as you guys assume they do, and all waxes need to be boosted at least every few weeks, if not more often for a daily driver, especially if non-garaged, especially if in a hot environment, and especially if dark. No wax on the market is going to last beyond a few weeks at 100%, not where I live. Anyone on these boards who somehow expects their waxjob to stay perfectly fresh for months and months and months with no maintenance as some form of proof that "it lasts longer", is someone whose "advice" is meaningless to me and the thousands, or millions, of other people reading these forums. That goes double for someone who is not detailing a dark or black car at a show car level.

If Ultimate or NXT is someone's favorite wax based on their own comparisons, that's fine with me, no argument. But don't assume you're right in presuming Gold Class, Yellow #26, or any other carnauba/syn blend, is in any way inferior or lesser than or does not last or requires re-waxing significantly more often, because you are wrong. Worse still, do not presume that Ultimate or NXT are the right waxes for everyone in every situation for every vehicle, because they are not.

I don't have to prove it. The science, chemists and manufacturers already did the heavy leg work. There are plenty of posts on this forum and other detailing forums, across the internet. Along with many articles. As it's been said many times a synthetic will out last a carnanuba. Nobody is saying that Gold Class, M26, Deep Crystal Carnauba or even all of the cleaner waxes are bad products. Do you think Meguiar's would sell a product that they don't stand behind? Davey said it right and I refer you to his comment.

This is a very good read and it says everything that I don't need to say. I'm sure you will think it's not true but so be it.

http://www.autogeek.net/qude101.html

Next thing you will pobably not believe is that the latest and greatest technology (aka a coating) will outlast a selant and a carnuaba. Or do you believe a carnauba can outlast a coating? If you do then I suggest you research and test it out for yourself. Now there are sealants than can give a coating a run for it's money (colinite, klasse, etc...). A coating will also degrade with time.

Everyone knows that nothing lasts forever. If it did these companies would be out of business.

You bring up boosting. Which is the proper thing to do but that will only get you so far regardless of what type of wax/sealant you use. Nobody is disputing that because it's been proven. But after a certain period of time all you will be seeing is the actual effect of the spray wax and not the original coat of wax/sealant. As Jason Rose once said on a podcast (It was either on the smoking tire podcast or on Larry's Ammo NYC podcast) it's called surface tension. Anytime someting is applied to the surface it changes the tension of the surface.

Testing a product without any maintenance is the exact way to determine how long a wax/sealant lasts.

There are so many variables that influence the longevity of a coat of wax. I do believe the literature and comments from Meguiar's employees about the potential longevity of Ultimate Wax. An example of the sales literature when Ultimate Wax was introduced:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?46204-Ultimate-Wax&p=439865&viewfull=1#post439865

Whether the comments about a specific synthetic would apply to all synthetics in general, is unlikely. I do use Ultimate Liquid Wax most often, if not always, on vehicles for other folks.

I agree with you. The environment plays a huge role. It's been well documented and discussed.

I'm curious: Do you think that the official Meguiar's statement that UW is their "longest lasting wax" is BS as well?

Also, I don't think that anyone has suggested that Gold Class, Yellow #26, or any other carnauba/syn blend are inferior to UW / NXT - only that they do not last as long. And I think it would be plain silly to suggest UW / NXT are the right waxes for everyone. That's why other choices exist. The main reason people go for carnaubas, or carnauba blends is because of the looks they impart to the paint - darker colors in particular. There are plenty of other reasons too, not least of which is just plain personal preference.

Well said. A sealant has it's own look as does a carnauba. Topping is pretty common to get the best of both worlds. I was just stating that on a daily driver I prefer to use a sealant. I don't want to be waxing 3-4 times a year when I can do it twice a year and maintain along the way. I in fact top my sealant with a carnuba just for the fact that is changes the look.

[KIA HYBRID]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

I just got a very good lesson in wax ..Now I know for a rich nice deep shine it's carnauba.Which will have to done every other month.For a longer protection and not a deep shine it's a synwar.i want the nice deep shine so it going to be carnauba and the UQW as a booster. An will use UQD before I add the UQW.But I will still try the UQW while I dry the car on the weekly wash.I 'm sorry just a change of mind from the other post about going down Ultimate Road.I will still use Ultimate in the wash and polish and QW.From the link that was posted about synwar and carnauba I live in place which is hot(GEORGIA,USA) and this car is a daily drive and is a non-garaged.So carnauda fit the bill just right here.Also a good time to have a little W&R(WAX and RELAX) time to self.LOL.JUST WANT THE RICHES DARK CAR IN TOWN.It may drum up me some business.Small town and no full detail shop here.Let's hope I get a couple and they will buy the DA machine and I can get into the swirls removing stage.Just 1 step at a time. No big plans yet.Because I would need a garaged for all that.

[The Guz]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Glad you were able to determine something that is to your liking. Post pics when you get it done so we can see how good the car comes out.

[C8N]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

From my understanding, synthetic does have a higher resistance to heat.
As to how the hybrids work, I am not sure as they are a mix of carnauba and synthetic.
For example, collinite 845 is a carnauba based wax (never did figure out if this is a carnauba or a mix) and the word on the streets is that it rivals if not betters some synthetics in terms of durability.

[Top Gear]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Regarding the myth, Guz & davey... Marketing language on a bottle and third-hand opinions are your proof?? 'Kay. This is called a self-reinforcing delusion. Believe what you will, but again, apocryphal fictions are not good enough for me. Oh, and BTW, wax-topping is also a myth. The second wax usually nullifies the first, and the person doing the topping is usually unable to tell the difference between the two waxes, anyway - so it's a placebo.

Now, to KH, whichever line you choose for your main wax, which is your choice, I do suggest you match your quik products to that wax, so that you are boosting regularly with the same again. Since you'll be using a quik detailer or quik wax every few days, depending on weather, washing, etc, you'll want to extend the same "look-n-feel" you first chose, rather than fight against it and essentially remove it days later.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Top Gear, please stop assuming that there is a myth to synthetic sealants lasting longer than traditional carnauba waxes. You seem to have an agenda here that we can't quite figure out. From a previous thread:

Well, M26 is not a Quik Wax (as the OP was asking about), but is the blended (ie. Hi-Tech) Yellow Wax (ie. with carnauba) on which Gold Class Liquid/Paste/Quik Wax is based. GC 2.0 is more advanced than M26, I've read somewhere here, due to its newer ingredient blends. IMO, the only reason to choose M26 over GC is if you're buying volume and doing a LOT of cars professionally. Otherwise, all waxes and quik waxes I'm aware of from Meg's are either synwaxes or synwax/carnauba blends. Ergo, GC Liquid, Paste, and Quik Waxes are all hybrids. GC products last every bit as long as UW/NXT, despite the bogus myths.

And our response to that:

You're assuming, then, that all synthetic ingredients are the same, right? There is no doubt that the long chain polymers used in "purely synthetic" waxes like NXT and Ultimate are very different from any synthetic ingredient used in Gold Class or M26. Different like night and day. It's almost like saying "all tires are the same because they use some percentage of natural rubber and a bunch of synthetic materials in their tread compound". On the face of it, that's true (some natural rubber and a whole recipe of "other") but in reality there are enormous differences in tire performance and it's not just because of the percentage mix of ingredients - it's the actual ingredients used and how they behave.

Synthetic polymers encompass an enormous range of possibilities, and that's the beauty of them. They are totally man made and as such we have complete control over their characteristics because they are designed in. While it is indeed true that all carnauba waxes are hybrids of some sort, just what those other ingredients are can play a huge role in user experience, durability, gloss, etc. There is no "bogus myth" about synthetics lasting longer than carnaubas - it's fact, based on the very unique ingredients used in full synthetic products. Is it possible to take a product like Ultimate Wax and add some carnauba to it and call it a hybrid? Sure. But that's definitely not what's happening with our carnauba waxes.

Your response to the above was:

No, not at all. I'm assuming that Meguiar's has created a wide array of different and frequently changing blends using the wonders of advanced chemistry. I did not say all Meg's waxes are the same, but that they are all either synthetic wax blends or synthetic wax blends with carnauba. In short, I do not see a 100% carnauba-only product on your website. This is not a criticism. My amazement at Gold Class in particular is that it is such an advanced blend, a "best of both worlds" approach, but I certainly have never thought it was simply Ultimate or anything else with carnauba added.

I also said that Gold Class will last, for me anyway, as long as anything else you sell. I did not say that carnauba oil alone lasts as long as a synthetic wax, because it does not. I've also used various synwaxes that washed off in a couple of weeks. The bogus myths, to me, are about Gold Class/M26, not carnauba. People right here on these forums assume that Gold Class/M26 are not going to last more than a few days because they are "carnauba waxes", as they put it, so they choose Ultimate, NXT, or others, because they assume those will last longer. Yet, I've never seen a real world comparison that proves the synthetic aspects of Gold Class/M26 do not last, near enough as to make no difference, as long as any straight synthetic. However, my argument has been very clear that regardless of how long these waxes last, we will be boosting them one way or another long before, if we do very simple things like using a wash-n-wax soap or a quik product.

This still seems to show a lack of understanding of the fact that the "synthetic" ingredients that are contained in Gold Class/M26 have absolutely zero to do with those found in Ultimate or NXT. Yes, we agree that some synwaxes will wash off pretty quickly, but again, not all synthetics contain the same ingredients. We have always said that synthetics, as a group, will out last carnauba waxes, as a group. On the face of it, that implies that there may in fact be some overlap. We have no doubt at all that if you were to look at all sealants and waxes on the market today, and compare the most durable "carnuaba wax" to the least durable "synthetic sealant", you would probably see better durability out of that particular carnauba product compared to that particular synthetic product. No big shock there, really. But without a doubt, and there is no "myth" about it, the synthetic polymers found in Ultimate Wax will provide longer lasting protection than the whole mix of ingredients found in Gold Class. You are right when you say that carnauba waxes are not terribly durable and do require regular reapplication or boosting. Certainly the actual carnauba component is more susceptible to temperature extremes and heavy rain fall, but the fact of the matter is that the synthetic ingredients that offer protection in Ultimate are able to withstand these extremes much better. That said, prolonged heavy rain is extremely hard on any wax or sealant. What's really important to consider, however, is that the synthetic ingredients found in most carnauba waxes are not there to necessarily provide durability or protection, but rather to aid with the very subjective visual appearance and/or the ease of application and removal. Some of those same ingredients may well be found in Ultimate, and for the same reasons. But they have nothing to do with the durability of either product. NXT and Ultimate are both 100% synthetic polymers, but the list of ingredients is quite different.

We are almost shooting ourselves in the foot by admitting that Ultimate will outlast and out protect Gold Class, but it's true. But not everyone puts durability at the top of their list when selecting a wax/sealant. Some people don't even like the look of synthetics and much prefer carnauba for that reason alone. That's fine. Buy what you like - and there are plenty here on MOL who recommend and use brands other than Meguiar's, and we have no problem with that, either. But please stop saying that some sort of myth is being perpetuated regarding our carnauba waxes versus our synthetics. It's simply not true.

[davey g-force]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

^^ Hear here!

[KIA HYBRID]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

thanks to you both..if it wasn't for great people with 2 different views.I would be lost when it come to wax. you 2 have help me a lot to understand wax in a short amount of time.

[The Guz]

Re: need to know if what i'm about to do is too much or not enough?

Mr. Stoops