Out of bullets, what to try next???

[5xkmw]

I have spent the better part of the day trying to clean this up. This car never goes more that a month without a coat of wax. I use the DA system almost exclusively. I have hit this with several different products, including M101 and M100 with the extra cut DA pads. I worked up to the highest setting, and after numerous passes, this is still left. It is greatly reduced, but not the clear paint that I normally have. As an additional twist, this pic is of the hood, which is protected by the 3M clear bra. The unprotected paint is just as bad. I am not sure how these spots developed. My rinse water is DI filtered. What next?

[ClearlyCoated]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Hard water etching might require a little more muscle than what you've been using. Try M101 again with microfiber cutting pads, but if that fails to do the trick, you may need to find someone who's comfortable using a rotary polisher, wool cutting pads, and M105.

[davey g-force]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

I use the DA system almost exclusively.

Do you mean the DA Microfiber System, or the DA Power System? Or just a DA with foam pads?

[5xkmw]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Using a Meguiar's DA with the 5" Microfiber pads. Even used the thinner extra cut MF pads, with the highest setting. Started out with the normal cutting pads and the cutting component, added a little M100, switched to all M100 and the thinner extra cut microfiber pads. Spent a lot of time on small sections. I have been debating getting a rotary, just not sure if i want to start out on a black '13 Audi S5. It is KILLING me that these spots are on this car.

[The Guz]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

I wonder if the water spot remover polish would work. I was looking for the thread that Mario posted but I could not find it.

[bobrose]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Are you thoroughly priming the pad, using very slow arm speed, working a small section doing many passes? You may find going at a slower rotation speed may be more effective as long as the pad is still spinning. You also need to keep your pad very clean you may be getting a lot of residue on the pad. Is the the pad or the compound caking? Did you clay bar the paint before you started polishing?

[davey g-force]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Are you thoroughly priming the pad, using very slow arm speed, working a small section doing many passes? You may find going at a slower rotation speed may be more effective as long as the pad is still spinning. You also need to keep your pad very clean you may be getting a lot of residue on the pad. Is the the pad or the compound caking? Did you clay bar the paint before you started polishing?

The processes you've tried are very agressive - it's hard to believe those water spots haven't budged.

I think it's probably a technique issue...

[5xkmw]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

The processes you've tried are very agressive - it's hard to believe those water spots haven't budged.

I think it's probably a technique issue...

Clay bar, mild and aggressive, slow arm speed, small sections, primed pad, cleaned pad, new pad, I have used every trick I've learned on here. I am out of tricks......

[Scott's 62]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

I'm in the same situation on a black Hyundai but the water spots are crazy thick I've polished the rest of the car but the quarter and rear door the spots will not budge. I've throne da microfiber at it nothing 3 inch burgundy cutting pad nothing. They are very frustrating I think I'm down to wet sanding at this point.

[Christopher.Brown]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

pm sent 5xk...

too long for a thread reply as there are too many factors to take under consideration..

will update fo everyone later

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

So you've got the same issue on both the 3M paint protection film and the unprotected paint? It sure looks like you got caught by a sprinkler system somewhere along the line, and that sprinkler system was using "reclaimed" water. That stuff is so nasty that, quite frankly, we're a bit surprised that plants even like it!

Once the water evaporates and the minerals and other deposits are left to sit on the paint and potentially bake in the sun, things can go sideways pretty quickly. Exactly what was in the water, how the paint responds to it, as well as time and heat all play a role in how deeply the etching can get and how easy/difficult the paint is to correct. We really hate to say this, but we've seen situations where the only recourse was to wet sand and then buff out the sanding marks.

It sounds like you've already undertaken a pretty aggressive process, with limited success unfortunately. It sounds as though you're technique was sound, so it might be time to step up to something more aggressive. That could be using 3" microfiber pads, it could mean going rotary, or it might mean wet sanding. Of course, we don't recommend that you just dive in with a rotary on this car if you've never used that tool, and we really don't want you to start wet sanding without proper education on the process. The potential for disaster is huge if you lack the proper knowledge and tools to get the job done.

We're curious as to Christopher's suggestions and your offline discussion with him, so we'll sit tight and see what that discussion holds.

[5xkmw]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Talked with Chris. Gonna try some thing technique wise per his suggestions. I do have 3" MF pads. I forgot about them until today. Is there anything wax wise that will protect against this? I normally use finishing wax or ultimate wax.

[Christopher.Brown]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

I had the pleasant opportunity to speak with Mr. 5xkmw [not sure if he wanted me to use his real name] and he was frustrated and puzzled. I too would be if I had spent 5 hrs trying to make a dent in water spots.

Essentially we tried to first find the cause and i asked a few questions about snow [salt on the roads] where the vehicle spent the majority of its time etc etc etc. Then we went over process and I emphasized the VITAL importance of completely priming the pad - covering every single strand of microfiber.

Then we discussed the supreme importance backing plate rotation has on correction coupled with slow deliberate arm speed during section passes.....

I suggested something a bit less aggressive that xtracut and M101 [yooowwza thats powerful] to start with a few minor adjustments in procedure. He is quite informed on the DAMF system and has a good deal of experience.... so hopefully, as Michael mentioned above, the small adjustments can make the process more effective....

So when he gets a chance hes gonna test it out, see what the paint is tellin him and then take it from there... im hoping for some good news..

[5xkmw]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

Monday evening report: Switching to the finishing pad seems to be the difference maker. My rotation and arm speed were not to far off. This combo leaves very minor water marks, that I am sure I can remove with a few more passes. Chris/Mike, is the finishing pad more aggressive with the M100? That seems to be the case. Now to the Clear Bra protected hood. It takes 5 times the effort to get the same result. I am hoping someone can help me with that. Not sure how aggressive I can be on that.

PS: Chris, for those of use who are really obsessive, the correct acronym is CDO so that the letters are in alphabetical order...........

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Out of bullets, what to try next???

The finishing pad should not be more aggressive than the cutting pad, regardless of liquid used. It is possible, however, that if you've backed off on the pressure a bit in order to get more pad rotation and you've slowed down your arm speed, you could very well be seeing more cut with that pad. It can be a very fine balance some times, and as always the paint is a huge variable and some paints respond better to less pressure, some to more. That just adds to the fun in this game!!!

As for the clear bra, you might be out of luck there. That material usually does not lend itself to the same polishing (ie, leveling) process as paint does. In fact, most paint protection film manufacturers explicitly state to never use any sort of abrasive product on them. That said, we have seen some noticeable improvement on such films when using M205 on foam, but those results have been mixed at best.