Help!! Confused on Black Paint

[kodeblue]

I have done a lot of reading here and have learned alot. I am still confused about one thing though. I have a black '13 Sierra. I did the 5-step and was somewhat happy with the outcome. There are still a few swirls so maybe my next buff and polish will fix that. Anyways, I see a black new body style mustang where I work and the paint is very wet looking, even when dirty. I look at this paint and admire its' shine every time I see it. I don't know what I am doing that I cannot get mine to shine the same way. I use the Ultimate line except for the wax, I used Black wax. Now, is the professional series much better than the consumer line? Should I use Meguiars #21 before Black Wax to help?

[The Guz]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

What products did you use? Also did you do it by hand or machine?

[Detailing by M]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

......I look at this paint and admire its' shine every time I see it. I don't know what I am doing that I cannot get mine to shine the same way....

Because he had a pro do it or he's been practicing on his car and found out what works on it.

Detailing is an art and you have to learn how to do it.
You can't expect Pro results. Keep at it, one day you'll find what works.

Of course the Pro line is better, it's for pros.
I love 21 and BW, but you need to compound or at least polish the paint. With a machine.
So don't drive yourself crazy trying to get Professional results. Do your best and enjoy the "hobby' of detailing.
I've been doing this for over 20 years and everyday I learn something new.
Detailing is an ever evolving business, and every car is different.

[kodeblue]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Because he had a pro do it or he's been practicing on his car and found out what works on it.

I talk to the owner of the stang quite a bit. I did ask him what he does. From our conversation about detailing, I don't think he knows alot about it. He is an older guy. He told me he uses Mothers, not sure what product. I asked him if he polished or anything and he said no. He did buy the car from a friend of his so maybe that person might have some pro detailing done. I am planning on doing a compound, polish, wax again next week. If I use the #21 do I apply it between after the polish and before waxing?

What products did you use? Also did you do it by hand or machine?

I used the Ultimate line....Clayed, compound, polish, Black Wax. Applied using the DA G110V2.

[Detailing by M]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

can you post some pics?
that would help diagnose your problem better.

[Top Gear]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

First, I think you may have not gone far enough with the compounding and polishing. The paint should look defect-free after compounding, and then glassy-stunning after polishing. The wax then gives you that final "cast" of how light scatters and reflects across the polished surface, plus it protects your compounding and polishing.

Second, (as usual) I suggest Gold Class/#26 wax, not Ultimate or Black Wax, based one what you seem to like. If the other guy is using Mother's Gold on his black Mustang, that's very similar to Meg's Gold Class/#26 Yellow. Basically, it's the classic "show car" look

[kodeblue]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Second, (as usual) I suggest Gold Class/#26 wax, not Ultimate or Black Wax, based one what you seem to like. If the other guy is using Mother's Gold on his black Mustang, that's very similar to Meg's Gold Class/#26 Yellow. Basically, it's the classic "show car" look

I do not know what brand other then Mothers. Your reply brings me to another question though. Do different Megs waxes give different effects and if so, where can I see what each does?

First, I think you may have not gone far enough with the compounding and polishing.

That was my first time compounding and also used the DA which was a first. I know it is a learning thing. I read that when compounding, you should go back and forth, then do the same area up and down. Is this correct? If so, maybe I should try that, which I did not on my first round.

[Stephan]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

The Black wax does have some cleaners and a fair qty of polish in it. This may be removing some of the polish you already applied, if nothing else, it is redundant.

I agree with PWMD, #26 is a great last stage for black cars. It has a "warmer", deeper black look than say, an all synthetic sealant which I think leaves a "colder", more sterile black look. You have to wax more often though.

I use #7 Show Car Glaze (pure polish) then finish with #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax (carnauba).

My car pics here: http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...004v1/cat/2145

[The Guz]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Here's what Mike Phillips posted on autogeek

I have a catalog in my collection from 1988 that states,


M26 is
the only wax that will increase the D.O.I. of a previously polished
surface.


The context of that statement was after using #7 Show
Car Glaze on black paint, most waxes would decrease D.O.I. while M26 would
actually increase D.O.I.

I asked a chemist friend about this and he said
it was because M26 has/had the ability to bend light. Maybe one of our
engineering type people can explain how that would work...


D.O.I. =
Distinction of Image

The ability of a surface to reflect an image
clearly. A mirror offers 100% D.O.I.

You could also follow ultimate compund and polish with ultimate wax and see if you like the look. Try a test spot on one panel. One with ultimate wax and one with a carnauba like M26 or gold class. Or you could even try ultimate wax followed by a carnauba as well and decide which look you like best.

[Jeff Burrows]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Kodeblue,

Part of the reason a paint finish may shine more (black mustang) is because more time was put into the polishing and the finish is constantly being maintained. As far as the Mirror Glaze line being "better" than the consumer line, that is based upon application and technique. Meguiars consumer line is by far better than any other line of products on the market and the gap is definitely closing between the 2 lines, especially in recent years with the advent of the DA system. But technically the DA system is a professional line product. If you were to compare both lines and both lines were used to their maximum potential (Meaning an experienced rotary buffer expert was using the mirror glaze products) the mirror glaze line would offer better results. Meguiars consumer line is meant to give the best results possible to the largest groups of people, some with no experience at all. When an avid enthusiast, such as yourself, comes along and wants better results there is a limit to what can be achieved with consumer products. You are approaching the upper end of what those products offer.

Some of the limits are time, for example, if you did 10 applications of scratch X you would get amazing results in defect removal on your truck. It would also take you about 10 days by hand and you arms would fall off. 10 hours of rotary polishing and your truck would be perfect in 10% of the time. Other benefits to the professional line are larger quantites of basically the same products, quick detailer for example.

You cannot stack waxes like #21 and black wax, because black wax has mild polishing affect that will counteract the #21. Your problem of swirls remaining in the paint is more of a polishing problem than a wax problem.

My advice would to do 2-3 more applications of Ultimate Compound.
#21 should be applied last. It is their most durable wax on the market. It is a last step. You need to either pick, black wax or #21.

[Murr1525]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

It could also be different paint....

[C8N]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

2 things here...
1. Even tho both are black in color, your truck's paint and the mustang's paint are two different paints so they will have different visual effects.
2. You said that your truck still has swirls and it is because of these swirls that you are not getting the best possible shine out of your paint.

Swirls are basically scratches in your paint and when you have scratches, light will not reflect the way it should. You need to level your paint and eliminate those scratches.

[Top Gear]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

...Do different Megs waxes give different effects and if so, where can I see what each does?

Yes. Speaking very generally, most of them (like Ultimate, NXT, etc) yield a hard, silvery, mirror-like cast, but Gold Class/#26 Yellow have a softer, golden studio light cast. I'm not sure how to better explain it, but designers and photographers will know what I mean. Basically it's due to the carnauba oils vs synthetic polymers, even though GC is a mix. I don't mean to imply it's like night and day, or that it's always obvious or even visible in all types of light at all times, but the difference is real. Put simply, the classic "show car" look is best done with carnauba wax, and for Meguiar's that means Gold Class/#26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax. If I've read Michael Stoops right, Gold Class is actually more advanced than #26, plus it's easy to find, and has a matching Quik Wax for ongoing maintenance.

That was my first time compounding and also used the DA which was a first. I know it is a learning thing. I read that when compounding, you should go back and forth, then do the same area up and down. Is this correct? If so, maybe I should try that, which I did not on my first round.

My first time was nerve-racking, but it's unlikely you will hurt anything if you follow the advice given here and on the main Meg's website. If the hazy scratches are bad enough in your black, you might have to make many passes with UC to get the clear coat blocked down to a truly smooth surface. If not, nothing you do after that step is going to make up for it, really. Make sure you follow the videos on the main Meguiar's site for the official tips on how to do things - that's what I did

[kodeblue]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Thanks guys form all the tips. Just to confirm, my paint does not have alot or deep swirls, just a very few light ones. I am probably just being picky though. I did pick up a bottle of Gold Class and will be applying that early next week. A couple questions before I do though. I am sure on a video I watched, when using the DA polisher, I should be doing passes side to side then the same section again but going up and down so a criss cross pattern. Is this correct? I did not do this my first time, I did the side to side. Next question......I am going to apply the compound, then polish, then the GC. Is that it and if so, should I apply 2 coats as I have also read. Sorry to be asking so many questions lol.

[Jeff Burrows]

Re: Help!! Confused on Black Paint

Thanks guys form all the tips. Just to confirm, my paint does not have alot or deep swirls, just a very few light ones. I am probably just being picky though. I did pick up a bottle of Gold Class and will be applying that early next week. A couple questions before I do though. I am sure on a video I watched, when using the DA polisher, I should be doing passes side to side then the same section again but going up and down so a criss cross pattern. Is this correct? I did not do this my first time, I did the side to side. Next question......I am going to apply the compound, then polish, then the GC. Is that it and if so, should I apply 2 coats as I have also read. Sorry to be asking so many questions lol.

Yes, go in the criss cross pattern.http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.png That seems to work best with the DA and I would do that will all the steps, compound polish, and GC. It seems to help make sure every part has even and consistent coverage. I would do two coats of GC, it will not hurt. It will help a little and gold class has some light oils to really bring out the depth of a dark car. Please post some pic when you are done and get some direct sunlight pix! Technically there are 6 steps to polishing your baby... Step 6! Show it off!!!! http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...es/hotrod2.gif

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/images/smilies/patriot.gif