Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

[k3ith]

Alright, so I have been reading quite a bit and would like discuss some personal conflicts I am having between the pro and consumer lines.

If I am reading correctly, it seems that when comparing like products from the consumer to pro lines, the primary difference is that the pro line is suited for a rotary (feel free to correct this statement).

Here's my issue...

I have personally never used any of the Pro products but, even though I use a DA, I find myself really wanting to try the Pro products. Maybe it is just years of being conditioned by marketing, but I can't help shake the feeling that I am leaving something on the table with the consumer products. Plus it is just down right cooler to refer to products like M07, M21 & M26 than it is a descriptive name.

So, what I really need is for someone to tell me (1) "K3ith, your being stupid. The matching consumer products will give you as good of a result as the pro products if you aren't using a rotary". OR (2) "k3ith, actually your reading is a bit off and even if you aren't using a rotary, the matching pro products will give you a better result". OR (3) "k3ith, since the pro line is suited for a rotary and you don't use one, the consumer line is actually better for you.

Of course, I understand the answers might not be that simple. If not, we can take this as a discussion on "Comparing the Like Consumer Products with Professional Products when not using a Rotary".

Thanks in Advance.

[hacker-pschorr]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Quite a few (if not most) of the pro products say for use with DA and Rotary.

The is from M105, which I use with a D/A and Rotary:

DA Application: Apply directly to appropiate Soft Buff 2.0 Pad. Set machine to 4-5. Apply moderate pressure on initial 2-3 passes followed with light pressure for following two passes. Wipe off residue immediately after each panel. For final polishing, choose the appropriate Meguiar’s foam pad and Meguiar’s M205 Ultra Finishing Polish.
Rotary Application: Set buffer to approximately 1500-2000 RPM’s. Use with Meguiar’s Wool Pad. To prime new or dry pads, mist on M34 Final Inspection. Apply M105 Ultra-Cut Compound directly to the paint surface and begin working in a 2’x2’ area with overlapping passes.

M82:

ETHOD OF APPLICATION: For use with orbital or rotary buffer or DA polisher

[k3ith]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Thanks Hacker - good info that addresses "OR (3)" from original post. I think the rest is still in question.

[Murr1525]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

All you can really do is make the surface perfect, and then the paint will look its best, and all of the product lines are capable of doing this. So once the surface is perfect, there is nothing 'left on the table'.

But that doesnt mean you cant use other products. The waxes can be used by hand, or any machine. Same with the polishes. There is no reason you cant use #7 if you wanted.

It is generally the paint cleaners that are affected most, by application method, and how they were designed to be used. Most of the professional line is ok for the DA as well. That said, #105 works great on everything by hand or machine.

So... yeah, kind of a random answer, but hopefully it helps.

[yalerd]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Also, keep in mind that the Pro line is design for production so it's offered in different sizes. Also the product line is very very wide so if you don't know much about them so you could find is difficult to decide what to buy.

But you can use the Pro Line without any problem and use it with the DA or by hand (depending on the product) and have great results

[BarryK]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

try to keep the basics in mind when looking for the answer to your question(s).
The BARE BASICS will tell you that for your vehicle to look it's best it needs certains steps or processes to achieve it.
1. wash - it must be washed to get most dirt. etc off the paint, trim, wheels, etc
2. de-contaminant - using a claybar you can remove embedded contamination out of the paint
3. clean/polish/defect removal - using either a paint cleaner, polish or compound than polish (depending on what is needed after evaluation of paint after washing and claying) you will clean and/or remove defects from the paint such as watermarks, swirls, minor scratches, etc, etc.
4. protect - using a wax or sealant you put on a protection layer to protect the paint surface you just spent all the time washing, claying, polishing, etc.

Now, it's the PROCESS that preps and prepares the paint surface getting it ready to put on the wax or sealant that is going to make the vehicle look good by cleaning and removing the defects in the paint. The actual PRODUCTS used are secondary.
That doesn't mean that many of the Professional line of products are not "better" than the consumer line - in many cases and under many circumstances they are, but in other cases they are not and the consumer products would give you the same end results.
Lets take M105 compound and M205 polish in the Pro line vs Ultimate Compound (UC) and SwirlX in the consumer line.
M105 has a bit of a higher cut rating than UC but M105 was primarily designed for bodyshops to use to cut and remove wet sanding marks are painting a vehicle and the higher cut is needed for that. UC has ALMOST the same cut level and it's cut level is still high enough that it will remove most any defects you as a hobbyist or enthusiast weekend detailer is going to need for your vehicle. UC is also actually easier to use than M105 as it doesn't dry up and dust nearly as quickly like M105 tends to do.
The same thind with the next step down with M205 and SwirlX. Used properly, Swirlx is going to give you end results that are comparable to M205.
All four of these particular products can also be used with a DA buffer.

The M105/M205 vs UC/SwirlX is just one example.

Another difference between the pro line and consumer line is that the consumer line is designed and labled to be easy for any "Joe-Blow consumer" to understand what product they need for their situation and easy to use. Consumer products are not marked with 'Cut Levels" like the Pro line is because most of the time this information would be misunderstood and/or misused (example - a higher cut level on a compound/polish would so often be considered "better" when a lower cut level of a product such as ColorX or SwirlX may be more appropiate).

I can go on but the bottom line is that for the vast majority of people the consumer products are just fine and can do an excellent job.
Will it hurt you to try the Pro line products like M105/M205, M07, etc? no! if you want pick up smaller sized containers of the products you are interested in and try them for yourself to see if you like them and if you see any difference or any significant differences compared to the consumer products than use what you like.

I'll put money down though that at the end of the day what you will find is that it's the total process of preparing and prepping your vehicles paint that makes the difference on how it looks rather than which "line" of products you used during that process. Done correctly your vehicle can look just as good using the correct consumer products used properly as it would using Pro line products

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

So, what I really need is for someone to tell me (1) "K3ith, your being stupid. The matching consumer products will give you as good of a result as the pro products if you aren't using a rotary". OR (2) "k3ith, actually your reading is a bit off and even if you aren't using a rotary, the matching pro products will give you a better result". OR (3) "k3ith, since the pro line is suited for a rotary and you don't use one, the consumer line is actually better for you.

(1) K3ith, you are NOT being stupid - it's a valid question and one that is asked often. But essentially, yes, "the matching consumer products will give you as good of a result as the pro products if you aren't using a rotary". Keep in mind the operative word here - matching. For example, if you still have some Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner it most definitely is NOT the "matching" product to, say, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. But M80 and M83 used to be our go-to Saturday Class products for defect removal. Ultimate Compound is more aggressive yet leaves probably more clarity to most finishes due to the SMAT abrasives found in it. Is it a direct match to M105? No, but it's a heck of a lot closer, much less expensive, far easier to source, yet more aggressive than the aforementioned products. M105 is most likely overkill for the majority of basic swirl removal.

(2) While most of the Mirror Glaze liquids can be used via D/A some can not - but most folks using a D/A aren't reaching for M84 and M85 anyway, so it's sort of a non issue, really. Still, you have a wider selection of products in the Mirror Glaze line, so if you're detailing a wide range of cars - you're either a pro detailer or do a fair amount of "paying hobby" work - that can come in real handy. But Ultimate Compound and SwirlX will both yield fantastic results quite easily on most defects, most paints.

(3) Most products in the Mirror Glaze line are designed so that they canbe used with a rotary, not that they have to be used with a rotary. Perhaps the biggest difference is that the cleaners and compounds in the Mirror Glaze line are body shop safe. Another non issue for someone just looking to remove defects from their own vehicle, or for pro detailers.

[k3ith]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Thanks, all. I think I have gained the info I was seeking... here's the major points from what I read:

1. When using a DA, the "matching" consumer products will likely produce as good of a result for me as the pro.

2. The pro line is much more extensive and therefore there are products that do not have a "matching" consumer product. In some cases, the pro line may contain a product better suited for the job at hand.

3. It is fine to use a lot of the Pro products with a DA and a rotary is not required.

4. Do your homework on the Pro products because there are so many it might be confusing for a newbie to find the right one for the job.

5. Prep and technique are king, so don't get too caught up on the exact products.

Does that all sound about right? If so, I think I have decided that, for what I do, I am not leaving anything on the table with the consumer products. Based on that, I am not going to replace the consumer products I currently have on hand (Clay, SwirlX, ScratchX, Ultimate Compound, PlastX, NXT 2.0, Quick Wax and tiny bottle of Cleaner Wax that came with the clay) with Pro products at least until they run out, which will be a while. However, I am going to buy a couple of pure polishes and a good carnauba from the Pro line (recommendations welcome!).

I do have some questions now about cleaners, but I will look around for the answers and maybe make a new thread if needed.

Thoughts?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

5. Prep and technique are king, so don't get too caught up on the exact products.

This statement is huge, and spot on. We love that you see this!!

[Murr1525]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Does that all sound about right? If so, I think I have decided that, for what I do, I am not leaving anything on the table with the consumer products. Based on that, I am not going to replace the consumer products I currently have on hand (Clay, SwirlX, ScratchX, Ultimate Compound, PlastX, NXT 2.0, Quick Wax and tiny bottle of Cleaner Wax that came with the clay) with Pro products at least until they run out, which will be a while. However, I am going to buy a couple of pure polishes and a good carnauba from the Pro line (recommendations welcome!).

I do have some questions now about cleaners, but I will look around for the answers and maybe make a new thread if needed.

Thoughts?

Probably wont need "a couple of" pure polishes... #7 should be about it. And then #26 is the carnuba in the Pro-Line, so not much choice unless you find an old #16 for sale somewhere.

Something like #135 can be handy if you like UQD.

[cnfowler]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Thanks, all. I think I have gained the info I was seeking... here's the major points from what I read:

1. When using a DA, the "matching" consumer products will likely produce as good of a result for me as the pro.

2. The pro line is much more extensive and therefore there are products that do not have a "matching" consumer product. In some cases, the pro line may contain a product better suited for the job at hand.

3. It is fine to use a lot of the Pro products with a DA and a rotary is not required.

4. Do your homework on the Pro products because there are so many it might be confusing for a newbie to find the right one for the job.

5. Prep and technique are king, so don't get too caught up on the exact products.

Does that all sound about right? If so, I think I have decided that, for what I do, I am not leaving anything on the table with the consumer products. Based on that, I am not going to replace the consumer products I currently have on hand (Clay, SwirlX, ScratchX, Ultimate Compound, PlastX, NXT 2.0, Quick Wax and tiny bottle of Cleaner Wax that came with the clay) with Pro products at least until they run out, which will be a while. However, I am going to buy a couple of pure polishes and a good carnauba from the Pro line (recommendations welcome!).

I do have some questions now about cleaners, but I will look around for the answers and maybe make a new thread if needed.

Thoughts?

Sounds to me like you nailed it. Nice job. Too bad everyone can't grasp things as fast as you.

Colin

[k3ith]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Probably wont need "a couple of" pure polishes... #7 should be about it. And then #26 is the carnuba in the Pro-Line, so not much choice unless you find an old #16 for sale somewhere.

Something like #135 can be handy if you like UQD.

Thanks Murr, my research led me to this as well and I have purchased #7 and #26 (they were both available at my local Auto Zone!).

Would I use #135 to replace Quick Detailer as well as UQD? Meaning would I use it for clay lube and regular wipe downs during the processes etc or just for maintaining the finished product? I go through QD like water but save UQD for maintaining.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

M135 is sort of the pro version of UQD and as such is not recommended for use as a clay lube. But for routine wipe downs to keep the dust at bay and the finish looking great, it's a great replacement for UQD.

If you use a lot of either QD or UQD then look into picking up Last Touch as a replacement for QD and M135 to replace UQD. Both are available in gallon sizes so you get some economic benefits that way, plus Last Touch can be diluted 1:1 with water for clay lube use, effectively giving you two gallons for the price of 1.

[k3ith]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

M135 is sort of the pro version of UQD and as such is not recommended for use as a clay lube. But for routine wipe downs to keep the dust at bay and the finish looking great, it's a great replacement for UQD.

If you use a lot of either QD or UQD then look into picking up Last Touch as a replacement for QD and M135 to replace UQD. Both are available in gallon sizes so you get some economic benefits that way, plus Last Touch can be diluted 1:1 with water for clay lube use, effectively giving you two gallons for the price of 1.

Sounds like a plan, especially on the last touch - I'll need to get some spray bottles too.

[k3ith]

Re: Consumer & Professional - No Rotary

Sounds to me like you nailed it. Nice job. Too bad everyone can't grasp things as fast as you.

Colin

Thanks Colin. If only I could get my wife on that train of thought.