Can these come out?

[NVCobra]

Hi...since I dont have a dig camera I had to get creative,excuse my art,lol...I have drawn pics of a quater with swirls around it.. heres the best Ive gotten it so far working #80



this is normal hazing after #83 before using #80



..can the prior be completely removed? Thx

[Don]

If you went #80 to #83, you went backwards. #83 first for cleaning/scratch removal, #80 next to 'clean up' from the #83. Try another pass with #80/polishing pad (not bad art BTW)

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

You should not have the marring indicated in your drawing. Have you tried using the Meguiar's pads?

Tim

[NVCobra]

Thx guys....Don I did 83 then 80,just got the pics in wrong order. 2hotford thx...no I havent Im using the Sonus pads.

[NVCobra]

2hotford...Ive takin my blue polishing pad and grey finishing pad and have rubbed a spot without any product and neither left any marring. Could my product be being absorbed up into the pad beore it completley breaks down thus leaving the marring from the initial abrasives that havent broken down yet?

[NVCobra]

Can the dusting cause this marring im getting??

[Mike Phillips]

What did the car's finish look like to start with?

Mike

[NVCobra]

Hi Mike...This is close to what mine looked like before I started at all...for scale the point of light is quarter size ....



This is now...



I know its a huge improvement but I to am in this for the perfect shine.. thx

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

If the pictures you posted are representative of your paint, then it appears that you are almost there. At this point, I would still suggest #82 with a W-9006 Finishing Pad. I realize that you are using the Sonus pads, but it may be worth your while to try the Meg's pad with the #82.

Cheers!

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Can these come out?

Originally posted by NVCobra
Hi...since I don't have a dig camera I had to get creative,excuse my art,lol...I have drawn pics of a quarter with swirls around it.. heres the best Ive gotten it so far working #80



..can the prior be completely removed? Thx

When inspecting your results after #80, are you also inspecting your results after applying your choice of wax? Or are you inspecting your results after the #80 Speed Glaze?

Mike

[NVCobra]

Hey thanks 2hotford...I was almost embarrased to post the second pic of (the sec set) because it looks so much better,but I just didnt know if it was me or if these go to.. I guess Ill work with #9 somemore and if It doesnt work..megs pad next. Did you catch this part...

Could my product be being absorbed up into the pad beore it completley breaks down thus leaving the marring from the initial abrasives that havent broken down yet?

..I wash my pad as soon as I see it start to make smear spots of product. Thanks again

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Yep, sorry I did miss that part.

The pad very well could be absorbing the product creating a dry buff situation. If that is the case, though the pad may not scratch when rubbed by hand against the surface, the PC's action will create more heat, and friction, thereby possibly causing the marring. Again, I know how the Meg's pads behave with too little or too much product, but I can not comment on the Sonus pads.

We will get this figured out!!

Tim

[Mike Phillips]

NVCobra,

Part of your answer is here,

PC+83 not "cutting" it!

What you can or cannot do with a dual action polisher will always come down to how hard the paint is.

Last week a forum member brought his clear coated, 1991 Ford Lightening Truck by my house for me to look at. He tried the #83W-8006/PC combo and it had no effect.

I tried that combo and it had no effect. (The truck has horrendous cobweb scratches throughout the entire finish).

So I whipped out the rotary and followed Meguiar's philosophy,

Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

First I tried M-83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish with a W-8006 foam polishing pad on a Makita rotary buffer at around 1800 rpms.



This had absolutely no effect on the finish. Next, I substituted M-84 Compound Power Cleaner, and switched to a W-7006 foam cutting pad with the Makita rotary buffer at the same rpm as the previous test.



I buffed a small area of the front of the hood, and the passenger's side front top fender and was able to remove the cobweb effect and restore a smooth glossy finish.

Both of us were amazed by how hard the paint was. I suggested he contact Joe at Superior Shine, or Brian at Auto Express and see if either of these guys would be interested in detailing his truck because it was going to take an experienced Professional with years behind the rotary to successfully remove the cobweb-effect.

His other option would be to repaint the truck.

It's important to note that the G-100/Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher is limited in what it can do. It's not the end-all, be-all answer to everything.

In the example above, the rotary buffer with a foam cutting pad, an aggressive cutting compound and time, heat and pressure took a long time to remove the scratches in to small areas...

The dual action polisher didn't make a dent in them... I took before and after pictures, I'll try to dig them up and post them.

What you can or cannot do with a dual action polisher will always come down to how hard the paint is

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's a pictures of Tim's, (aka forum member svt150tim), new-to-him Ford Lightning with a factory clear coat finish over white basecoat.




Here's what the finish looks like all over the the entire truck,

Horrendous Swirls


Here are the results after 10 minutes of compounding using #84 Compound Power Cleaner with a W-7006 foam cutting pad on about 1800 rpm.



We tried to remove the cobweb-effect using the G-100 with a W-8006 polishing pad and some #83 DACP but it had no visible effect. The clear coat finish on this truck is as hard as glass, the only way to remove the swirls in the finish is to machine compound with a rotary buffer.

The point is, there is only so much a dual action polisher like the Meguiar's G-100 can do, once you reach it's limit, and it's not removing the defect, then it's time to substitute a rotary buffer or if you don't own a rotary buffer, and/or the skills to operate one correctly then you will need to take your car to a professional who is trained and experienced with the proper use of the rotary buffer.

Mike


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another part can be found here,

To Mike or anyone with lots of experience.

Originally posted by chip douglas
Do you *always* get holograms with a rotary, even with a finishing pad and say #82 ? I was trying to attempt making a clear coated finish perfect using only a rotary, and I've almost concluded it can't be done and needs to be followed up with the PC.

If I do not wash the car and bring it out in the bright sunlight, then it looks perfect with #82, BUT if I remove the #82, then I can see the very light holograms.

My car is black btw.

Marc

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Not always. It really depends on product selection, skill, technique and paint hardness, or paint workability. THe latter two factors are things which you have no control over. Having too soft of a paint system can also work against you because the paint will be easily scratched or swirled.

I would say that in most cases, if you wash the car after polishing with a rotary buffer and any companies pad and polish, and then pull the car into bright light such as sunlight, then you are going to see some light swirls or holograms depending on your process. Most polishes are easily removed with water and soap, especially detergent soaps.

To create a 100% swirl-free finish requires that you do everything you can to the best of your abilities to remove as many of the deeper defects from the finish as you can using a compound or cleaner/polish. Then using good technique, the correct pad and a finer polish, you re-polish the area and massage out any remaining haze or swirls from the first step.

If you do everything right you can get to about 98% to 99% of the way to your goal of a swirl free finish. In order to take your results over the top to perfection, you will have to re-polish the finish using a machine that oscillates instead of rotates, and/or apply a product that will fill-in and eliminate from your view, the very fine, or shallow swirls that may still remain.

Just to note, achieving perfection on a painted surface will always be influenced by things like paint hardness and/or softness. The harder the paint, the more difficult it will be to massage out each and every defect, while very soft paints will be prone to marring or micro-scratching. There is a sweet spot for paint harness that gives you the best of both worlds, hardness for durability and resistance to deteriorating, yet soft enough that it can be successfully polished. This unfortunately is something you can't control.

Your point of origin, or reference must also be considered. If you start out with a finish that has gross swirls, as in deep swirls possibly instilled by running the car repeatedly through a mechanical car wash, or perhaps it was machine buffed using a wool pad and a compound that doesn't utilize diminishing abrasives, no polish or wax is going to be able to fill-in deep swirls like this and make the paint look good. So if by using a rotary buffer you can effectively remove the deep swirls, scratches, oxidation, etching, (or whatever the defects are), and create a finish that is 99% of the way swirl-free, then the difference between the condition of the finish you started with and the condition of the finish you have created will be dramatic.

Final polishing with the dual action polisher and a fine polish like our #82 Swirl Free Polish or our #9 Swirl Remover 2.0, and even our #80 Speed Glaze, or a good quality polish or wax, (or both), will be enough to carry your results over the top.

It all comes down to the fact that in order to remove a defect you have to touch the surface, (in one way or another), and remove small particles of paint in an effort to level or flatten the surface. The trick then is to use a system that is able to remove defects, without instilling its own defects.

Does this help?

Mike

Obtaining the "Perfect Shine is a process that ends with the application of the last step product, not you last machine applied polish. Sad to say, maintaining the "Perfect Shine is a continual process unless your car is in a museum, or kept in the garage and never driven.

There is no such thing as a flawless finish on a car that is driven daily without maintaining the previously created results by reapplying either a polish or a wax, or both.

Hope this helps...

Mike

[NVCobra]

Sry Mike,I missed your post....

When inspecting your results after #80, are you also inspecting your results after applying your choice of wax? Or are you inspecting your results after the #80 Speed Glaze?

....Im checking after #80 using 50/50 spay...and even after #9 same way. I did try one small spot all the way with DC pure topped with NXT (better) but still marring.

[NVCobra]

2hotford...

The pad very well could be absorbing the product creating a dry buff situation. If that is the case, though the pad may not scratch when rubbed by hand against the surface, the PC's action will create more heat, and friction, thereby possibly causing the marring. Again, I know how the Meg's pads behave with too little or too much product, but I can not comment on the Sonus pads.

...Guess Im gonna have to get some Megs pads and try them...Im about to give up and say fine is fine, I dont know if the extra 10% better look is worth the extra 90% work!! lol Thx