Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Back to Mark's post with the sand paper analogy, here are my questions:

Same concept applies to paint. You start with more aggressive products and work your way back down to fine products that leave the finish smooth and glossy. - Mark

1.) Mark, when you said this, did you mean to use more aggressive polishes only after finding out that the milder polishes won't work? Or do you just start with the most aggressive polish right off the bat and not even try to see if milder polishes will remove the swirls?

2.) While I was thinking about it, how do these 2 compare in figuring out the aggressiveness?

M80 with Polishing pad V.S. M80 with Light Cutting pad

Will the M80 with Light Cutting Pad cut deeper than with the M80+Polishing Pad?

3.) Please tell me if I'm correct on this: So basically there's 2 DIFFERENT concepts.

The first concept is to use the most aggressive polish, and work your way down to milder polish. This doesn't mean to use M105 right off the bat. What it means is to use the strongest polish that will remove JUST ENOUGH clear coat to get the swirls out (most aggressive polish = just strong enough), and work your way down (milder polishes) to remove the scratches left by the aggressive polish. *In my case, if I were to have VERY LIGHT swirl marks, then maybe M09 is my "most aggressive polish". Also, more aggressive products = leave bigger scratches whereas milder products = leave smaller scratches too small to be seen.

The second concept, which is to start from the mildest polish and work your way up so that you don't remove excessive clear coat at once.

So to combine the 2 concepts, "mildest polish" in the 2nd concept can also mean the "most aggressive polish" from the 1st concept.



I hope you guys really won't mind me asking so many questions as I am very slow at understanding.

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Mike, from your prior ownership of the Z, what do you think the thickness of the paint is? Also, is there a way to tell the thickness, perhaps by doing a test or something?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

M105 offers a 12 cut, but finishes more akin to a 2-4~ on the cut scale for most people, on most finishes. It defies traditional logic of how a compound performs.

Good explanation. I've seen M105 finish out to what looks like a 100% swirl free, LSP ready finish. I've seen it first hand to the point that you feel compelled to strip the finish to check for filling because you just can't believe your eyes and this is with a wool pad where conceivably the fibers themselves should be leaving swirls.

One word. Amazing.

I know other's have seen this too, guys with years of experience behind the rotary like Jason Rose, Mike Pennington, Joe aka Superior Shine, Kevin Brown to name just a few.

Of course paint systems vary this isn't going to be the case for ALL paint systems, so it is important to check your results and follow-up with a secondary polishing step to insure swirl free results and that's where M205 comes into the scene.

These two new products are now the Super Twins of the compounding and polishing world and the 2 Big Dogs to beat by any other product/system on the market.

You have to use them to see the results yourself and of course you need to see the results to believe it because it will blow you away.

If you read my writing style enough you'll see I'm not one to hype a product but instead let results speak for themselves but M105 and M205 are truly a major change in technology and when people that have never used them before but instead are used to more traditional compounding and polishing results, when they give these new Super Twins a try it's the difference between night and day.

I wouldn't do a complete, that is a complete rotary buff-out of a car without them.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Welcome.

So it appears that M205 has a similar cut as M80? I figured going from a heavy cutting product like M105 with a 12 rating to a moderate polishing product with a cut of 4 would be too much a a leap down? I assumed you would need something in the middle. I guess not.

With "old technology" you would be precisely right. However, with new SMAT (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) technology like that found in M105, and M205, old logic and rules are shattered and replaced with new ones.

M105 offers a 12 cut, but finishes more akin to a 2-4~ on the cut scale for most people, on most finishes. It defies traditional logic of how a compound performs.

M205 similarly defies logic as it finishes out like an extremely gentle ultra fine finishing polish, yet still offers a sizable amount of cut when needed (with a polishing pad instead of a finishing pad, for example).

[Bert31]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Can't hardly believe I didn't mention what it was....

I've edited my post and your quote of me and added a reference link.

Thanks!

Welcome.

So it appears that M205 has a similar cut as M80? I figured going from a heavy cutting product like M105 with a 12 rating to a moderate polishing product with a cut of 4 would be too much a a leap down? I assumed you would need something in the middle. I guess not.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

I assume you are referring to M205? Is this a polish that can be used with DA's like M80 and 83 or is it best to use with a rotary like 84, 85 and 105?

Can't hardly believe I didn't mention what it was....

I've edited my post and your quote of me and added a reference link.

Thanks!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

I assume you are referring to M205? Is this a polish that can be used with DA's like M80 and 83 or is it best to use with a rotary like 84, 85 and 105?

M205 Ultra Finishing Polish

• Advanced technology produces a deep gloss and rich, swirl-free results
• Uses Meguiar's Super Micro Abrasive Technology
• For use after M105 Ultra-Cut Compound and all other Meguiar's Compounds
• Permanently removes swirls and light defects from all paints
• Produces rich, deep reflections
• Smooth buffing feel with easy wipe off and fast clean up
• Non-gumming formula, performs well with any Soft Buff 2.0 Foam Pads
• PAINTABLE: Safe for use in the paint shop environment
• Safe, Crystalline Silica Free Formula
• Environmentally responsible, VOC compliant formula
• For use with Rotary Buffer, DA Polisher, Orbital Buffer and by Hand

Front Label


Back Label

[Bert31]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

We have a brand new polish, (M205), that's actually becoming available on the market this week, possibly next week depending upon where you look.

I assume you are referring to M205? Is this a polish that can be used with DA's like M80 and 83 or is it best to use with a rotary like 84, 85 and 105?

[Bert31]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Good explanation bert31

We don't recommend using a cutting pad or M84 with a DA Polisher but the principals you outlined are dead on.

Opps, sorry about that.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

I guess Boba now needs guidance on which LC pads to use with which Meguiars' products. Does the following sound about right?

You done did good!

[akimel]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

I will be using a PC7424. The pads I have are:

LC 6.5" Orange
LC 6.5" Blue
LC 6.5" White

I guess Boba now needs guidance on which LC pads to use with which Meguiars' products. Does the following sound about right?

LC White = Megs' yellow polishing pad -- use with M09, M80, and M83.
LC Blue = Megs' black finishing pad -- use with waxes and pure polishes.
LC Orange = Megs' maroon cutting pad -- not to be used with a PC or D/A polisher.

I realize that the finishing pad can also be used with M09 and M80 in specific circumstances, but I just thought I'd get us rolling.

Al

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

FWIW

I'm a former Z owner, but I trend towards classics, anything you don't have to smog and came originally with glass headlights are to criteria I use to buy a vehicle....

This is after machine polishing with M80 Speed Glaze, applying a coat or tow of NXT Tech Wax and maintaining with Ultimate Quik Detailer.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

*EDIT* Will read the threads above ^.
Thanks Mike.

Just don't want to see you make a mistake on your beautiful car.

We have a brand new polish, (M205), that's actually becoming available on the market this week, possibly next week depending upon where you look.

It's a finishing polish but probably strong enough with a polishing pad to remove the kind of light swirls you have in your Z's finish. The Zaino advocates will encourage you to strip your paint clean with a Dawn Wash after using it but I wouldn't if it were my car. Just polish, wipe off the residue and apply a couple thin coats of the Z2

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Where did you learn about using cutting pads with the PC?

Most of our posts dealing with these cutting pads, (when used with a PC), are helping a member remove the haze they instill.

Most people learn about using cutting pads on other detailing forums and no one on these other forums points out that when used with a tool that oscillates the chances for hazing/micro-marring are pretty good. You'll just get short one or two sentence recommendations with little or no substance or meaty information.



Then, when a "Newbie" to machine detailing sees their paint all hazed they panic.

Especially if they didn't do a test spot but instead went over their entire car. And especially if their car is black or dark in color.

*EDIT* Will read the threads above ^.
Thanks Mike.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

From our Hot Topics forum

Take a few minutes to read through this thread...

Cutting Pads with the PC - Is this a good idea?

Below is my Mustang hood where I used an orange pad on the top right side, and the results from using less abrasive products and and polishing pad....



Note: The top left corner is how the paint started out. The orange cutting pad made the paint look worse than how it started out.

The lower section is after we used M80 Speed Glaze with a polishing pad. (Don't remember if we also waxed the lower section it's been over 2 years since we worked on this car at one of our Saturday classes.)

I have a San Marino Blue (Dark Blue) 350z (I think 350z has thin paint) and from my inexperience in car washing, I had put swirl marks on it.

If you only have light swirls from car washing, then you should be able to remove these using a soft polishing pad. Avoid the cutting pad till you get some hours behind the PC under your belt.

Also, if you're going to use Zaino, then you probably ought to get some ZPC so you stay inside a system. ZPC works pretty well by machine and with a polishing pad on the 5.0 Speed Setting will be equivalent to our M80 Speed Glaze in cutting ability.