Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Mike, from your prior ownership of the Z, what do you think the thickness of the paint is? Also, is there a way to tell the thickness, perhaps by doing a test or something?

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Back to Mark's post with the sand paper analogy, here are my questions:

Same concept applies to paint. You start with more aggressive products and work your way back down to fine products that leave the finish smooth and glossy. - Mark

1.) Mark, when you said this, did you mean to use more aggressive polishes only after finding out that the milder polishes won't work? Or do you just start with the most aggressive polish right off the bat and not even try to see if milder polishes will remove the swirls?

2.) While I was thinking about it, how do these 2 compare in figuring out the aggressiveness?

M80 with Polishing pad V.S. M80 with Light Cutting pad

Will the M80 with Light Cutting Pad cut deeper than with the M80+Polishing Pad?

3.) Please tell me if I'm correct on this: So basically there's 2 DIFFERENT concepts.

The first concept is to use the most aggressive polish, and work your way down to milder polish. This doesn't mean to use M105 right off the bat. What it means is to use the strongest polish that will remove JUST ENOUGH clear coat to get the swirls out (most aggressive polish = just strong enough), and work your way down (milder polishes) to remove the scratches left by the aggressive polish. *In my case, if I were to have VERY LIGHT swirl marks, then maybe M09 is my "most aggressive polish". Also, more aggressive products = leave bigger scratches whereas milder products = leave smaller scratches too small to be seen.

The second concept, which is to start from the mildest polish and work your way up so that you don't remove excessive clear coat at once.

So to combine the 2 concepts, "mildest polish" in the 2nd concept can also mean the "most aggressive polish" from the 1st concept.



I hope you guys really won't mind me asking so many questions as I am very slow at understanding.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Back to Mark's post with the sand paper analogy, here are my questions:
1.) Mark, when you said this, did you mean to use more aggressive polishes only after finding out that the milder polishes won't work? Or do you just start with the most aggressive polish right off the bat and not even try to see if milder polishes will remove the swirls?

2.) While I was thinking about it, how do these 2 compare in figuring out the aggressiveness?

M80 with Polishing pad V.S. M80 with Light Cutting pad

Will the M80 with Light Cutting Pad cut deeper than with the M80+Polishing Pad?

3.) Please tell me if I'm correct on this: So basically there's 2 DIFFERENT concepts.

The first concept is to use the most aggressive polish, and work your way down to milder polish. This doesn't mean to use M105 right off the bat. What it means is to use the strongest polish that will remove JUST ENOUGH clear coat to get the swirls out (most aggressive polish = just strong enough), and work your way down (milder polishes) to remove the scratches left by the aggressive polish. *In my case, if I were to have VERY LIGHT swirl marks, then maybe M09 is my "most aggressive polish". Also, more aggressive products = leave bigger scratches whereas milder products = leave smaller scratches too small to be seen.

The second concept, which is to start from the mildest polish and work your way up so that you don't remove excessive clear coat at once.

So to combine the 2 concepts, "mildest polish" in the 2nd concept can also mean the "most aggressive polish" from the 1st concept.



I hope you guys really won't mind me asking so many questions as I am very slow at understanding.

Boba-

Always start by testing with your least aggressive products. Once you find the least aggressive product that will still get the job done, THEN you work backwards down from that ("aggressive" product) to the less aggressive products until the finish you are after is achieved.

Two separate concepts, and I can see how it might be confusing. No worries about the questions! That's what the forum is here for

[akimel]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Boba, I know you are concerned about removing too much clearcoat, but in fact, unless your car has already been seriously buffed out with a rotary, your paint probably has plenty of clearcoat to work with. We have all had that fear that we will "burn through" the paint, but the fear is groundless when using a D/A with M80 and M83. In comparison to the rest of the Meguiars' lineup, these are gentle products.

Ultimately, what you need to do is to obtain the right products and spend a day working on your car. If you follow the instructions Mike and others have provided, you'll get the hang of it real fast and you will love the improvement in your car's appearance. You will gain confidence really quickly.

Cheers,
Al

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Here's the irony, most people struggle with removing defects, that is most people struggle with removing enough paint to remove the defects.

The problem is rarely people having too easy of a time removing tons of paint quickly, the problem is removing any at all.

In other words, as long as you're using a DA Polisher and the products being talked about in this thread you don't have anything to worry about.

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Have you ever worked with wood and sandpaper? It is common to start with an abrasive sandpaper such as 80 grit (meaning 80 particles that cut per square inch), which takes lots of wood out with each pass, but leaves many scratches. Next, you would follow with something like 120 grit, then 220, 440, etc until you reach a finish that is suitable for your tastes and application.

Why can't you go directly from 80 grit to 2000 grit and skip the ones in-between?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Why can't you go directly from 80 grit to 2000 grit and skip the ones in-between?

Because polishing paint is a process, not a one-two punch.

At some point it will be time to push away from the keyboard and actually go out into the garage and work on the car.

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Because polishing paint is a process, not a one-two punch.

At some point it will be time to push away from the keyboard and actually go out into the garage and work on the car.

Waiting for my PC7424 to arrive Mike

In the meantime, i'm gathering advices from your "How to's" on using buffer, and reading articles and trying to pick out the most suitable and cost effective products. There's just toooo many products

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Good thinking.

You'll need more pads with the PC for swirl removal as when the pads start to become wet with product the wet foam will actually absorb and dissipate the power coming out of the tool.

That's one of the benefits to our new G110, we had it built with more power and it's not as affected by wet pads.

Again, you might want to wait till the new M205 becomes available, it's easy to work with and might be the perfect product for your goals.

[Alfisti]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

LC White = Megs' yellow polishing pad -- use with M09, M80, and M83.
LC Blue = Megs' black finishing pad -- use with waxes and pure polishes.
LC Orange = Megs' maroon cutting pad -- not to be used with a PC or D/A polisher.

This a very interesting thread...I'm sure it's very helpful to all neophytes.

Just to mention that the LC orange isn't as aggressive as the Megs maroon v1 (can't comment on v2 as I've never used it).

Maroon v1 won't work with a PC but LC orange comes out very nice on most paints. Removes defects, leaves *very* mild hazing, but comes good with a finishing polish. Maroon v1 never worked for me with a PC. I'm sure v2 is better.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Maroon v1 won't work with a PC but LC orange comes out very nice on most paints. Removes defects, leaves *very* mild hazing, but comes good with a finishing polish. Maroon v1 never worked for me with a PC. I'm sure v2 is better.

The most important thing is to test first and then inspect the results from your test. Don't ever buff out an entire car only to find out you made it look worse than when you started.

Hazing left by too aggressive of a pad can be recovered from usually by re-polishing using a less aggressive pad and usually product, depends on the haze/paint.

The goal however should be to remove defects without leaving a haze that must be removed and in most cases a quality polishing pad will achieve as good of results as a cutting pad without the hazing. Deeper defects may not come out or come out as fast but if the car is a daily driver make sure your expectations are realistic to start with.

Meguiar's has removed the recommendation from the packaging for our new W7207 foam cutting pad but a lot of people that have used it have found that it does work really well but again... test first...

Newbies tend to panic if they see hazing, seasoned veterans either adjust their recipe or take it for granted they're going to do a second cleaning step to remove the haze.

[Bert31]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

1.) Mark, when you said this, did you mean to use more aggressive polishes only after finding out that the milder polishes won't work? Or do you just start with the most aggressive polish right off the bat and not even try to see if milder polishes will remove the swirls?

Unless this is a car he is fimililar with I hope he started mild and worked his way up but I will let him answer this.

2.) While I was thinking about it, how do these 2 compare in figuring out the aggressiveness?

M80 with Polishing pad V.S. M80 with Light Cutting pad

Will the M80 with Light Cutting Pad cut deeper than with the M80+Polishing Pad?

Yes, M80 on the Light Cutting Pad would cut deeper than on the polishing pad. However, if I am using M80 on a polishing pad and not getting sufficient cut, I would move to M83 on the polishing pad before moving to the cutting pad. If I need a little more cut, I like to move up the strength of my polish before I move up the strength of my pad. The paint tends to finish up a little nice in those cases.

3.) Please tell me if I'm correct on this: So basically there's 2 DIFFERENT concepts.

The first concept is to use the most aggressive polish, and work your way down to milder polish. This doesn't mean to use M105 right off the bat. What it means is to use the strongest polish that will remove JUST ENOUGH clear coat to get the swirls out (most aggressive polish = just strong enough), and work your way down (milder polishes) to remove the scratches left by the aggressive polish. *In my case, if I were to have VERY LIGHT swirl marks, then maybe M09 is my "most aggressive polish". Also, more aggressive products = leave bigger scratches whereas milder products = leave smaller scratches too small to be seen.

The second concept, which is to start from the mildest polish and work your way up so that you don't remove excessive clear coat at once.

So to combine the 2 concepts, "mildest polish" in the 2nd concept can also mean the "most aggressive polish" from the 1st concept.

You may be blending the two concepts together. Again, unless you are working on a car you are fimiliar with, you won't know which pad/polish combination you will need to get adequate cut to remove swirling so you start low and build up on a test spot. Once you figure out how strong your combo needs to be and have removed all your swirling, then you start heading down to refine the paint.

Sidenote: Very experienced detailers may be able to approach a car and have a "feel" for how aggressive they should start out with. I would not be surprised if Joe (Superior Shine) can do this. A detailing enthusiast should not try to do this.

[Bert31]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

With "old technology" you would be precisely right. However, with new SMAT (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) technology like that found in M105, and M205, old logic and rules are shattered and replaced with new ones.

M105 offers a 12 cut, but finishes more akin to a 2-4~ on the cut scale for most people, on most finishes. It defies traditional logic of how a compound performs.

M205 similarly defies logic as it finishes out like an extremely gentle ultra fine finishing polish, yet still offers a sizable amount of cut when needed (with a polishing pad instead of a finishing pad, for example).

So with 105 and 205 it is OK to go from a 12 cut to a 4 cut, what about going the other direction. Let's say I use 205 of the Meg's polishing pad (8006) on my rotary and I don't get enough cut but jumping up to 105 on a cutting pad (7006) or wool a cut of 12 would seem a little much in keeping with following the least aggressive method. Should I a product in between first before going to 105 on the cutting pad or wool?

[Boba]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Sorry to interrupt Bert. Quick off topic question for the crowd. Where is the best OTC store to get Meguiar's products, if any?

(I went to Kmart, Walmart, Pepboys, and Auto Zone. All they had were the basic wash soap & wax. Kmart did have ScratchX though.)

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Will Zaino Z2 bond to M09 or M80?

Sorry to interrupt Bert. Quick off topic question for the crowd. Where is the best OTC store to get Meguiar's products, if any?

(I went to Kmart, Walmart, Pepboys, and Auto Zone. All they had were the basic wash soap & wax. Kmart did have ScratchX though.)

Are you looking for Consumer Products or Professional Products like the M80 Speed Glaze or M105 Ultra Cut Compound, or M21 or M26?

If you're looking for Consumer Products then you're going to the right stores but not every store is going to carry the same products. There's a car parts super store called Super Autobacs that I've been told has a great selection of both Consumer and Professional products, not sure of the location as I've never been there.

If you're looking for Professional Product then you'll want to find your local PBE Store and becomes friends with the counter people.

Just for your reference and for everyone's reference that will read this thread into the future... in the center column of the forum home page you'll see this,

Have Questions? Looking for Answers?
So much good, practical and helpful information in the "Information Station" like these two forum groups and the List 'O Links thread.
Hot Topics
How To Articles
List 'O Links 2.0


If you click on the link to the How To Articles and scan through the thread topics you'll find this,

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown

Hope that helps...