ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Moved out of Hot Topics and into Detailing 101

Please don't post new threads into any forum group in the Information Staton...

Thank you!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Have any of you worked on BMW paint before? This car has not ever been comnpounded, so how much is too much paint leveling? Does 2004 BMW paint usually have enough clearcoat on it to use M105? I am just worried about taking too much clearcoat off with the M105 followed by M80 upcoming treatment.

By the way, I wanted to say 'thanks' for all the quick replies so far. This forum is a GREAT source of information.

We've had several dark colored BMWs here at recent Open Garage sessions, all of them less than 3 years old. In each case the paint seemed to respond best to M83 on a W8006 Polishing Pad with the G110. M83 actually left a nicer finish than M80 did, and it correct more defects in less time.



With regard to the discussion about possibly removing too much clear with M105.... we're still talking about working on these particular defects by hand, right? If so, don't even give it a second thought - we just don't have that kind of power when working by hand on a modern clear coat finish.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

With regard to the discussion about possibly removing too much clear with M105.... we're still talking about working on these particular defects by hand, right? If so, don't even give it a second thought - we just don't have that kind of power when working by hand on a modern clear coat finish.

Another way of putting this is most people can't remove the swirls and scratches out of their car's clear coat finish when working by hand, just look how many times a new member posts a thread asking for help using ScratchX or some other paint cleaner.

In other words... most people can't remove enough paint to remove the below surface defects in the paint.

So removing too much is the least of your worries... see if you can remove enough first.

[acribb]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

We've had several dark colored BMWs here at recent Open Garage sessions, all of them less than 3 years old. In each case the paint seemed to respond best to M83 on a W8006 Polishing Pad with the G110. M83 actually left a nicer finish than M80 did, and it correct more defects in less time.



With regard to the discussion about possibly removing too much clear with M105.... we're still talking about working on these particular defects by hand, right? If so, don't even give it a second thought - we just don't have that kind of power when working by hand on a modern clear coat finish.

Mike, hopefully you remember, but did these BMWs' paint look similar to the disease that I have on my paint based on the pics I posted back on page 2? I am just dumbfounded on how my paint got into this condition since I baby this car unlike any other and keep it waxed and garaged both at work and home. My other cars' (Acura mostly) paint never looked like what I have on this BMW, and I didn't even take care of those cars near as much! Personally I think it is paint failure.

Thoughts?

How many mils thick should my base coat and clear coat be and where can I go to get the thickness of my finish measured? I'd like to be able to measure a before thickness and after a compound thickness of a specific section just to make sure that I don't remove too much. Am I over analyzing here?

I have people telling me that compounding the car is a bad idea and that I should worry about removing too much clear coat.

From the pics, what condition would you say my paint is in?

It sounds like M80 (via DA), M83 (via DA) or M105 (by hand or DA (not recommended)) sounds risk free from what everyone has said here.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Your paint appears to have some fine straight line scratches and what appears to be pitting in the paint (or maybe some very fine water spot etching). Can you confirm this? Has the car ever been repainted?

[acribb]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Your paint appears to have some fine straight line scratches and what appears to be pitting in the paint (or maybe some very fine water spot etching). Can you confirm this? Has the car ever been repainted?

I don't believe the car was ever painted. I bought it with 7900 miles on it so I hope not! I am pretty sure it is factory paint. Yes there are fine straight scratches and what looks like 'paint acne' all over the top surfaces of the car. I would attribute it all to water spot etching.

[ronin]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

My car has similar problems as acribb posted on page 3. I tried some scratch x with a microfiber pad. The results weren't very good. And yes, I put some passion behind it. I've used it on other parts of the car with some success. I was thinking about moving on to the 105 with a Lakecountry orange pad and Porter Cable 7424. However, after reading this thread. This isn't the way to proceed.

I was assuming that the 105 was equivalent to the Pinnacle XMT #3 intermidate swirl remover. But After reading the various postings it seems to be stronger. I watched the video on autogeeks and thought that it looked similar to the damage on my car.

Can anyone give me some pointers on which pads to use?

I have the orange, white, gray, and blue pads to use with my Porter Cabler.

Also, if someone could explain to me how a wool pad would play into this.

The car is a 2007 Honda with the oh so soft and crappy environmentally friendly paint.

Thank you.

[ronin]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Forgot to add that I've already used the Meguiars #9 swirl remover with a white pad and porter cable. This was only on the hood and the font right side door. The hood looked better but there were still imperfections. Not as nearly as bad as the roof and trunk though. Those are the two main problem areas.

I had to stop since it was late and I didn't want to disturb the neighbors. Also, my lack of expirence using the porter cable didn't help.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Can anyone give me some pointers on which pads to use?

I have the orange, white, gray, and blue pads to use with my Porter Cabler.

Also, if someone could explain to me how a wool pad would play into this.

It would probably be better to start your own thread and let us answer your questions in a dedicated thread for your project than tagging onto page 4 of this thread.

We keep a pictures at the bottom of the homepage that shows you how to start a thread.

Bottom of the homepage www.meguiarsonline.com

If you want to start a new thread, then click to the appropriate forum by clicking here and selecting the forum that best describes what your topic will be about and then look for the button on the left hand side of the page that says, New Thread and click on it. You'll see a place to type in your Subject and below that a message box that you can type your message into. After you're finished with your message, click on the Submit New Thread button and your message will be posted to the forum.

[acribb]

Materials needed for an M105/M205 treatment using PC 7424

Ok, so it's been a year, and yes, the water spots are still bugging the hell out of me. I want my paint to have a silky smooth, high gloss shine to it.

I also just had my car keyed on the side, a very thin line in several places, about halfway through the clear coat.

I am ready to start an M105 and M205 treatment. I will try the M205 first, and then move on up to the M105. I will be working on a test area first, the right side of the top of the trunk.

I'd like to use the PC 7424 I have using the famous, "Kevin Brown" Method I have been reading about all over the net.

I am very anal retentive about how I do things, so, although I am not a professional detailer, i'd like to think that I can handle the KB method using a PC 7424.

But,

What pads and pad sizes do I need for the M105 and M205? I'd like to buy Lake Country, but if there are Meguiars recommended equivalents, I am fine with those as well.

What backing plate do I need? There is a 6 inch backing plate on the PC 7424 now.

Post #13, page 2 of this post shows pics of my paint, whereas you can very, very lightly feel the waterspots on your fingernails.

Thoughts?

Suggestions?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Working with the PC 7424 and M105 you should stick to either the Meguiar's W8207 polishing pad or, if you insist on LC pads, their orange one. You're better off staying away from a dimpled or waffle pattern pad on the D/A since they will actually give you less surface to work with and will diminish your overall cut. You can use a bit more pressure than you might normally use with products like M80/M83, as well as a bit less product overall.

It is still very important to work just small areas at a time, no more than 2' x 2', maybe even a bit less. And of course keep that machine running at speed 5 for this step.

M205 might be run on the same Meguiar's pad (a fresh one, of course) but more likely on a W9207 finishing pad - how your paint responds is going to play part in determining this. In the LC line you might go with their white pad or even step down to one of their finishing pads (blue or black, if memory serves). Again, avoid the dimpled or waffled pads.

As for backing plates, our W68DA is made specifically for our Soft Buff 2.0 pads (W7207, W8207, W9207) and may be too large in diameter for a 6" pad, certainly too large for a 5.5" pad. For those you're better off with our W67DA backing plate.

[acribb]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Sounds like my 6" backing plate that came with the PC 7424 will be just fine for these 7" pads you are recommending.

Am I right?

Also, what is your opinion on this writeup of the KB method? Is this a solid method to using the M105 and PC 7424?

http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=1695

Again, thanks for any and all help and advice.

[wwally]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Acrib,

Just a note from another black BMW owner. Mine is a 2008 and I have never had a car that incurs and shows defects like this car. So the paint may be hard to remove defects from, but it is very easy to add defects to. After you get the defects removed, here is my suggestion. I keep a constant coat of the Ultimate Quick Detailer and/or Ultimate Quick Wax on the horizontal surfaces of the car. I use NXT 2.0 under that. This has tremendously helped in avoiding new defects. I find that the vertical surfaces require a lot less attention.

Wally

[acribb]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Acrib,

Just a note from another black BMW owner. Mine is a 2008 and I have never had a car that incurs and shows defects like this car. So the paint may be hard to remove defects from, but it is very easy to add defects to. After you get the defects removed, here is my suggestion. I keep a constant coat of the Ultimate Quick Detailer and/or Ultimate Quick Wax on the horizontal surfaces of the car. I use NXT 2.0 under that. This has tremendously helped in avoiding new defects. I find that the vertical surfaces require a lot less attention.

Wally

So true, so true. Sadly.

I have taken better care of this car, more so than any other car I have owned, and in my opinion, the paint is pathetic. I am very particular about how I wash and dry this car, which even further adds to my confusion on to how the paint got this many water spots on it. Like you said, apparently it gets damaged very easily, but yet this paint is hard as a rock.

After correction, i'll be sure to keep some serious wax on it, and will be using Final Inspection on it after EVERY wash. I will probably layer with Klasse AIO that I have had in my garage for 4 years now, followed with some NXT 2.0.

It will most likely be a few weeks before I can get to it, but I will post pics.

[wwally]

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

So true, so true. Sadly.

I have taken better care of this car, more so than any other car I have owned, and in my opinion, the paint is pathetic. I am very particular about how I wash and dry this car, which even further adds to my confusion on to how the paint got this many water spots on it. Like you said, apparently it gets damaged very easily, but yet this paint is hard as a rock.

After correction, i'll be sure to keep some serious wax on it, and will be using Final Inspection on it after EVERY wash. I will probably layer with Klasse AIO that I have had in my garage for 4 years now, followed with some NXT 2.0.

It will most likely be a few weeks before I can get to it, but I will post pics.

Acribb,

I think the Ultimate Quick Detailer will leave behind more protection than the Final Inspection. In fact, I use it to dry the car after every wash, spraying it on while the car is wet. It makes the drying much easier and removes any spotting from the current wash. I then follow up with a very light coat of the Ultimate Quick Wax. If you spray this on too thickly on a dark car, it will streak. Otherwise it's a terrific product.

Wally