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**Mike Phillips** · Sep 12, 2008, 09:06 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

ScratchX will remove defects but there are 3 factors that come into play,

How deep the etching is.
How hard the paint is.
The skill level of the person applying the product.

We have people come to Meguiar's Garage ALL the time with a story like yours and then we take a stab at it and get the etchings out, so it can be done but sometimes it requires a machine applied product.

We have a new product out that's a lot more aggressive than ScratchX and can be applied by hand it's called M105

Another product we demonstrate at all our Saturday classes and in most cases it will do as much or more in one application as 3-4 applications of ScratchX. So it's a much more effective product to use by hand but you have to buy a quart as it's in our Professional Body Shop Line and that's the smallest container it comes in.

If you have access to a PC then find your local PBE store and see if they have any M80 Speed Glaze or M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish and some foam Polishing Pads.

Be sure to read this too as the PC is limited as to what it can do just like your hand is limited as to what it can do. The problem is the paints. Paint manufactures supply paint to the specifications of a car manufacture and I don't think they ever ask for paints that the average person can work on by hand, thus modern clear coats tend to be harder than traditional single stage paints and this frustrates car owners when they try do do what you tried to do.

Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher

Check this out too...

How To Remove a Bird Dropping Etching by Hand using M105 Ultra Cut Compound

Welcome to clear coat paint technology....

**acribb** · Sep 12, 2008, 09:19 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Thanks for the quick reply, Mike. I have previously read those two threads. In fact, I read almost every thread in the Articles section.

Would pictures help show exactly what I need? M80, M83 or M105? Which one?

I have already bought Scratch X and the Paint Cleaner and neither of those are working. Would the Scratch X work with the PC? It looks to be doable, but if I am standing there rubbing it with my arm and hand strength for about a total of 10 minutes with 3 or 4 applications, I just don't see how a PC is going to work with the Scratch X. I just want to get the right thing and not keep buying things I don't need.

Also, when and where are these 'Saturday Classes'?

**new2detailing** · Sep 12, 2008, 09:38 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

BMW paint has an incredibly hard clear coat. Hand polishing will be very difficult. The water spots may be cased by mineral deposits left by the water. A simple solution is to use white vinegar on the spots (apply vinegar on rag and place on panel or if the spots are severe let the rag sit on the panel for several minutes) Do this in a shaded area or inside.

**Mike Phillips** · Sep 12, 2008, 11:07 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Originally posted by acribb View Post

Would pictures help show exactly what I need? M80, M83 or M105? Which one?

Typically you would start with M80 and see if it will get the job done.

How to locate Meguiar's Professional and Detailer products in your hometown

Originally posted by acribb View Post

Would the Scratch X work with the PC?

Since you already own it, give it a try. If it doesn't make a dent in the etchings then you'll need M80 for sure and maybe something more aggressive like M83. You just don't know what you can do until you try.

M105 would for sure remove them by hand. Meguiar's doesn't recommend using M105 with a DA Polisher but a lot of people have good luck with this combo.

Originally posted by acribb View Post

Also, when and where are these 'Saturday Classes'?

Irvine, California

**acribb** · Sep 13, 2008, 05:33 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Originally posted by new2detailing View Post

BMW paint has an incredibly hard clear coat. Hand polishing will be very difficult. The water spots may be cased by mineral deposits left by the water. A simple solution is to use white vinegar on the spots (apply vinegar on rag and place on panel or if the spots are severe let the rag sit on the panel for several minutes) Do this in a shaded area or inside.

Vinegar was the first thing I tried a long time ago. No worky.

**acribb** · Sep 13, 2008, 06:02 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Mike, is the cutting power of Scratch X more or less than M80 or M83? Obviously M105 has more cutting power, but I was wondering where Scratch X fits in between M80 and M105. To me, it sounds as if Scratch X IS M80, just the consumer version. Am I wrong here?

**Heatgain** · Sep 13, 2008, 07:03 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Originally posted by acribb View Post

Mike, is the cutting power of Scratch X more or less than M80 or M83? Obviously M105 has more cutting power, but I was wondering where Scratch X fits in between M80 and M105. To me, it sounds as if Scratch X IS M80, just the consumer version. Am I wrong here?

That's not correct.

Least to most:
ScratchX
80
83
105

**OhioCarBuff** · Sep 13, 2008, 07:40 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

I have a '99 BMW 740i, and one time somebody wiped a spot that had a little oil spilled on it with a shop rag, it put some nasty swirls. The factory paint is so hard on that car that it literally took 12 applications with scratch-X by hand to bring that spot up to par with the rest of the car, and that was working it in with a lot of passion each time

**VonLego** · Sep 13, 2008, 07:50 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

I'm too scared to get my oil changed anymore...

Anyways yeah I'd check out 80 and 105. I'd skip 83, 105 is just that much better for the purposes of someone wanting to detail their own car. If you have the money laying around, go nuts and get all three. They are all great! 83 and 105 both finish down to a sligh micro marring (typically) that can be fixed up with 80. I feel in love with 105 last weekend when I detailed my vehicle. It was impressive how strong it was by hand and DA!

**OhioCarBuff** · Sep 13, 2008, 09:52 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Well it was just a small spot on the fender, and from my experience of buffing a lot of cars from my family and friends that most other cars would have only taken like 3 or 4 applications of scratch-x by hand to get out an equal amout of swirling, I'm just pointing out how hard the factory BMW paint is. I can also tell from buffing it with the DA that the paint on the BMW is hard as nails

**Michael Stoops** · Sep 13, 2008, 10:15 AM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

We see a ton of water spots around here, and get plenty of phone calls from customers asking how to get rid of them. Water spots are not all created equal - we've seen some that can be removed with a simple vinegar wash, some that Cleaner Wax easily removes, others that require 2 or 3 vigorous applications of ScratchX, and then the nasty ones that need M83 on a G110 or even a cutting pad with M105 on a rotary. And then there are the really bad ones that are so deeply etched into the paint that a bit of wet sanding is about all you can do to eliminate them.

The problem is that you don't what kind you have until you start working on them. Since we always recommend the least aggressive approach to get the job done, it makes sense to start with ScratchX and evaluate from there.

**acribb** · Sep 13, 2008, 05:48 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

My paint is sick. It looks even worse now that I put some work lights against it! This is a 12" section on the center of the hood on a Silver-Gray 2004 BMW 530i. I went over this section with ScratchX 3 times with a PC 7424, with each application being about 4 minutes, wiping in between applications. I cannot see any noticeable difference at all with this masked off section versus the rest of the paint. This is what the entire top surfaces (hood, roof and trunk) look like. Shall I go straight to M105?

**Markus Kleis** · Sep 13, 2008, 06:30 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

Meguiar's teaches that you should always use the least aggressive method first, and work your way up to more aggressive products if you do not achieve your desired results.

The point of this is to conserve the paint/clear on your car as much as possible as it has a finite amount available for defect removal.

That said, if Scratch-X isn't doing anything at all, I *personally* would be inclined to going to M105 and a good wipe down to see the results. Your first pass with the M105 go a little easy on it, and then "up the anti" if necessary with following passes.

Again, that is not the official suggestion per Meguiar's, but just a personal preference. Of course, all three of the products are great products and have their place so it couldn't hurt to grab a 32 ozer of #80, #83, and some M105.

**acribb** · Sep 13, 2008, 06:55 PM

Re: ScratchX does not work on water spots. Next steps?

I know this is a Meguiar's forum, but someone on the BMW forums recommended a product/system called Finish Kare. What about Hawaiin Island Shine Water Spot Remover? Can a chemical products like these REALLY do anything? I mean my clearcoat is obviously etched. Unless these products somehow MELT the clearcoat together, I don't see how these can work. Comments?