Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

[KevinB]

After some ruthless vandalism, I had my car repainted. When the car was delivered (today), it had horrible rotary buffer swirls all over it. I was really upset, and of course the body shop said they'd keep the car and hand polish the swirls out. For reference, the rotary swirls look a lot like the ones in this example:

How To Remove Swirls By Hand




So, here's my question: should I insist they repaint the car again? Or at least do a new clearcoat? Is this something I'll have to maintain over the life of the car? I understand the clearcoat is scratched, and even in the wonderful detail example I linked above, the job was "not perfect...but close." This body shop assured me the car would be perfect and like-factory new.

What should I do?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

I know a guy whose been polishing paint for years and I don't think he could remove 'all' the swirls in an entire car by hand. He's also too smart to try.

It's likely what they're going to do is hand apply a glaze that will fill-in the swirls so when you pick up the car it looks okay. Wash it a few times and watch the swirls show up again.

The fix is these guys need to invest in their heads, (get knowledge), so they know how to do the job right the first time. This is unlikely as people get set in their ways and as it's been typed up numerous times on this forum, body shops are production shops, they just want to get the cars in and out and move on to the next car.

Their compounding process removed some of your precious clear coat paint and to re-do the work again and with a miracle get id done right the second time is also going to remove some clear coat paint, so all the paint they've applied, and all the money you've spent has been for nothing.

Tell them you want the car re-cleared and then tell them not to sand or buff on it because it's obvious they're not qualified to work on their own work.

Next,

• Either learn to do it yourself, (the sanding and buffing)
• Find someone qualified to sand and buff the finish for you
• Learn to live with whatever results you get the second time
• Cross your fingers the paint job comes out nice and doesn't need to be sanded or buffed
• Take it to another shop

It could be they've applied plenty of clear so that if by a miracle they re-polish the paint and do it right the second time, (and the results come out great), that you'll be okay, but how will you know? Their word?

It's so sad that training is available to show shops like this how to get show car results yet your experience is the norm.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

After some ruthless vandalism, I had my car repainted. When the car was delivered (today), it had horrible rotary buffer swirls all over it.

I was really upset, and of course the body shop said they'd keep the car and hand polish the swirls out. For reference, the rotary swirls look a lot like the ones in this example:

Spend some time reading this forum and you'll find many people that struggle getting a few scratches out of their car's paint, or a bird dropping etching, and today a guy couldn't get out a stain left in the clear coat by dog saliva.

This is because modern clear coats are typically much harder than traditional lacquers and enamels and removing defects like swirls and scratches is very difficult even by people skilled in the art of polishing paint.

So these guys are telling you they're going to "Polish out the swirls by hand", the same swirls they instilled by machine?

I'd pay $100.00 to see them do this in a one foot squared area on the hood. That is, "By Hand" remove the swirls and make the paint look good in your eyes.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Where are in in California?

For everyone that ever reads this thread, learn a lessson, take a camera with you and a Swirl Finder Light when you go to pick up your car from a body shop or even a detail shop.

[KevinB]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Mike, thanks so much for the info! You are an incredible help!!

I'm in Southern California, around Long Beach. This was an insurance repair, and the body shop in question was recommended by Farmers, my carrier. I have nothing bad to say about Farmers, but I'm starting to wonder.

However, I talked to both a manager at Farmer's and the body shop, they assured me that the job is covered for the life of my car, "like factory new." So if there are any probs, I can take it back.

I just talked to the shop again and they admitted, yes, they're doing a hand glaze. The rep tried to explain to me that the clearcoat wasn't scratched, that the machine polishing is part of the process, and so is the glaze. He assured me again and again that I could wash the car 100x and it will look exactly how it looks when I go to pick it up. Hmm.

Normally, I wouldn't believe any of it. But having my insurance co behind me feel a little better. Not sure whether I should just demand a re-clearcoat as you mentioned, and take it elsewhere for the polish, or just take the car and see what happens down the line.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

I just talked to the shop again and they admitted, yes, they're doing a hand glaze.

Nailed that one.

The rep tried to explain to me that the clear coat wasn't scratched, that the machine polishing is part of the process, and so is the glaze.

He's lying. He thinks you don't know anything and can fool you because this is how all these shops work, most people don't know what a nice finish looks like and they assume it's swirls are normal. He doesn't think you know anything or have a place to go to for accurate information.

If you car truly looks like the one in the picture above, then you have rotary buffer swirls, which are scratches instilled by the use of a pad and some type of compound or abrasive product, usually a wool pad, maybe a cutting pad or a finishing pad. Regardless, these swirls are circular scratches in the paint and the only way to remove them is to remove more paint in an effort to level the upper most surface with the lowest depth of the deepest swirls.

A hand glaze will merely fill them and because this is a body shop they will be using "Body Shop Safe" products which is another way of saying that there will be no protection ingredients in the formula, or in other words ingredients that last i.e. hold up to repeated washing and/or inclement weather.

He's lying.

He assured me again and again that I could wash the car 100x and it will look exactly how it looks when I go to pick it up. Hmm.

Let them apply the hand glaze and then bring it by this Saturday's class and we'll wash the hood and then remove the swirls out of just one half of the hood and document it with photos and then you can show everyone.

Maybe they'll ask us to teach their people how to do professional quality work in the end and save all their future customers from going through what you're going through.

[KevinB]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

If you car truly looks like the one in the picture above, then you have rotary buffer swirls, which are scratches instilled by the use of a pad and some type of compound or abrasive product, usually a wool pad, maybe a cutting pad or a finishing pad.

Yup. He mentioned foam. When I saw it this morning, it looked exactly like the picture.

Regardless, these swirls are circular scratches in the paint and the only way to remove them is to remove more paint in an effort to level the upper most surface with the lowest depth of the deepest swirls.

Yeah, seems a workable solution, but pretty ridiculous considering it just came out of a repaint. I think the best thing to do is find a new shop.

Let them apply the hand glaze and then bring it by this Saturday's class and we'll wash the hood and then remove the swirls out of just one half of the hood and document it with photos and then you can show everyone.

Maybe they'll ask us to teach their people how to do professional quality work in the end and save all their future customers from going through what you're going through.

Hah, that would be fantastic. I'm picking the car up Sat morning (they don't open until 9am) so I wouldn't be able to make it to the class on time. But thanks much for the offer. I'd love to see what they have to say after taking the pictures. After going through this mess I feel obligated to inform as many people as possible. I wouldn't wish this hassle on anyone.

But yup, you were dead-on about the glaze. Is there something I can do to remove the glaze safely and quickly? Or is it just a soap and water thing? I think it would help my case just as well if I took it from the shop at 9am, washed it, and came right back by 10 showing the swirls as before.

[mavrick]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

You could wipe it down with 50/50 solution alcohol/water then wash as normal.Thats what i've heard it seems to work and you'll SEE anything that's there BEFORE you wax so nothings "covered"up, Mike's right on with what he says,ther'er really trying to COVER UP ther' mistakes they call themselves WWHAT! PROFESSIONALS!

[KevinB]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Just an update...

I seem to be going back and forth with the body shop, who keep insisting the glaze is "part of the process" and that they merely forgot to do it. They keep claiming that the swirls I saw (the bad polish job) is "normal" and the glaze is there to "protect, since you can't wax for 30days while the paint cures." Sheesh. I'm near the end of my patience.

Can someone recommend the best way to show them the truth? I'm going in tomorrow to get my car, and I feel like the best thing would be to remove the glaze on site and reveal the buffer swirls. Perhaps the 50/50 alcohol and water solution mentioned above is the best bet?

I'm really at a loss, because they are so insistent they're doing the right thing. Mike, when you mentioned coming down to Meguiar's, what were you thinking of doing? Removing the glaze off a partial portion of the hood or something? Just curious.

Thanks in advance!

[BlueZero]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Take photos of everything. From a legal stand point. You can't argue with photos. Wish you the best of luck! Keep us updated.

[Murr1525]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

One problem is that you might be getting caught between everyones different lingo.

A glaze can be part of a Meguiars process as well, but it is either after, or part of, a product that is used to remove swirls.

And they are right that you cant use a wax for 30 days or so, but you can use a glaze.. but you can also use a product to remove swirls, which a wax wouldnt do anyway...

Sounds like they were taught something, but never shown or taught everything... and you are stuck with the mishmash.

[Graeme]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I would tell them that you are not happy with it and intend to seek legal advice (they may think twice). I would also take photo's BEFORE you leave the body shop, I would also see if you can do what Mike suggested and then show them the results.

Good luck and I hope it all turns out well for you.

Graeme

[KevinB]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

A glaze ... is either after, or part of, a product that is used to remove swirls.

Yeah, right? There's no such thing as a perma-glaze, as far as I know. Seems like all glazes are temporary cover-ups for this type of thing. These guys say the opposite.

Sigh. Well, I'll document and let everyone know how it goes. Sadly I didn't have my camera when I first saw the car, so it'll be all glazed and nice when I see it tomorrow. The trick is not having to bring it back once the glaze wipes off and have them say, "sorry! you did that!!"

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Well, I'll document and let everyone know how it goes. Sadly I didn't have my camera when I first saw the car, so it'll be all glazed and nice when I see it tomorrow. The trick is not having to bring it back once the glaze wipes off and have them say, "sorry! you did that!!"

You could get a swirl finder light and a bottle of 90% Isopropyl alcohol mixed with water at 50/50 and wipe the hood really well and the shine the light on the hood to inspect for buffer swirls.




You want to be careful though as this is brand new paint, use a gentle touch and a clean soft microfiber polishing cloth.

You could also wash the car with a detergent soap like Dawn and this will remove any glaze or temporary polish being used to fill in the swirls.


Do the Isopropyl test while you're there, or take it home and do it, at this point they're probably thinking of you as a trouble maker because you're educated on this topic an on to them. Body shops don't do high quality buff-outs period. Maybe a handful in the U.S. do but it's certainly not the norm.


Tomorrow's class is full, but come on by at lunch, have some pizza and maybe we'll use you car for the demo.

What kind of car is it and what color is the paint?

If not the demo, we would be glad to take a look at it after the class around 3:00pm We can photograph the swirls at noon if the sun is out, and buff them out like this to then take back and show the body shop folks.


Before


After

[KevinB]

Re: Car Repainted...with Horrible Swirls!! What to do?

Cheers, Mike. Thank you so much!!
Well, till tomorrow...