I'm very upset and feel cheated...

[96Lude]

I polished my dad's car a little while ago, please see this thread for pics:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15712

It looked gorgeous besides some deeper defects that I could not safely remove so I left them. Swirls were basically gone as you can tell by the pics, however today I looked at it in the sun and I see marring on the doors again. I've only washed it a couple of times since and I'm the only one who did wash it. I'm very upset at the moment and I am not understanding where this marring is coming from again. The only thing I can think of is that it came back when I washed it without my grit guard inserts since they hadn't arrived yet in the mail. I am extremely careful when I wash and I use the 2 bucket method. Does this mean that #80 didn't actually remove the marring in the first place and I should polish with #83? I've seen the numerous posts saying that Meguiar's products do not merely hide the defects, but rather remove them but this is not what I'm seeing right now. At this point I feel like polishing is a waste of time since the marring can come back so easily. I have all the proper tools to correctly wash the car so this should not happen.

[35th Anniversary SS]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

I always make it a habit to "once over" the car after detailing it. Do you know for a fact that the marring happened after the detail or if they were there right after the detail?

[SpoiledMan]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

One thing I noticed is that for your before pictures, you used the direct sun approach to showing off the finish on the car. In the after pictures none are in direct sunlight. I would guess that by only using the rotary buffer and #80 to polish the surface that you had some leftover buffer trails/holograms and that the finish could have been taken further by the use of a less aggressive pad/polish/machine combination.

[Zet]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

While the car did look good in the after pics, I don't think any of them had the sun directly reflecting in the paint, so maybe the marring was already there?

Do you have any pics of how it looks now?

While most combinations of polish and wax will hide defects to a degree, I find this hiding ability to be very slight.

Btw, are you sure your dad haven't run it through a car wash after it was polished? I'm just thinking that something was done to the car previously to put in those swirls and scratches, maybe this is still done?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

The before and after pictures look really good?

If you used M80 correctly you removed the swirls, haziness and scratching. If the haziness, swirls and scratching are back then it's new swirls, haziness and scratching.

Here's something people just don't get,

Automotive paints are thin, delicate films that are easily scratched and easily dulled.


Once you have a nice, swirl-free finish, you have to do everything can to keep it that way and just the act of washing and drying will re-introduce new swirls and scratches, because...

Automotive paints are thin, delicate films that are easily scratched and easily dulled.


This is why since about 1991 I've always told people,

”Find something you like and use it often”

If you find a product you like, then apparently the results look good in your eyes, if you use it often, then your finish will always look great. It's only when you begin to neglect or abuse the finish that it goes down hill.


We have black Honda Pilot that same Nighthawk Pearl color your car has and even after we clean and polish it, in order to keep it looking flawless all the time I have to wax it often. If I want it to look it's best then I have to wax it right then and there. It's the nature of a dark colored car and one reason so many people avoid black and opt for white or silver metallic, they don't show swirls and scratches like black.

Most of management here at Meguiar's own and drive black cars, most of management here at Meguiar's have their cars washed and waxed weekly. They alway look deep, dark and wet.

[Nick Chapman]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

most of management here at Meguiar's have their cars washed and waxed weekly. They alway look deep, dark and wet.

They HAVE their cars washed and waxed??? I would expect a little more from them

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

The below is taken from for before and after thread here,

Here is my process:

Wash with NXT
Clay
#80 Speed Glaze on W-8006 pad applied with Rotary
#21 Synthetic Sealant (2 coats, applied by hand)

I would like to mention that I attempted a test spot with my PC 7424 and it did not remove any swirls at all. I still have yet to find any car that has paint soft enough that can be polished with the PC.

Even if you're a seasoned professional, chances of creating a swirl free finish using M80 with a rotary buffer are pretty nil. Try going over each panel using the PC --> After <-- the rotary step with either M80 or one of these, M66, M82 or M09 and then apply your wax.

As far as stating this,

I still have yet to find any car that has paint soft enough that can be polished with the PC.

Somethings wrong with your technique as almost ever Saturday and Wednesday night we easily and successfully remove swirls out of paint using M80 Speed Glaze on a W-8006 foam pad on the PC.

We don't have any choice over the cars that are brought here for detailing and in the last three years it would be ridiculous to conclude that every car we worked on had soft paint and shallow defects.

As a person that teaches people how to use the correct technique almost every Saturday, one thing for sure... most people fail due to the way they're using the machine.

Your expectations for what you can achieve using a rotary buffer are to high and you need to understand more about the paint polishing process.

Here are two threads that you should read entirely for your own edification.

Need Help! - How to Avoid Holograms?
How to Avoid Swirls and Holograms?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

They HAVE their cars washed and waxed??? I would expect a little more from them

There are two professional detailers that take care of cars at Meguiar's, both the head detailers have been detailing cars for around 20 years are are completely up to date and proficient with Meguiar's products and professional techniques.

It's all about time...

[96Lude]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

Mike, it is very well possible that my PC technique is not up to par, that I can accept since I am in no way a professional detailer, I only do my own car. I have lots of products that I purchased including #9, #82 as well as 8006 and 9006 pads.

So should I attack it with the PC or the Rotary next?

[N.E.W.car]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

Mike, it is very well possible that my PC technique is not up to par, that I can accept since I am in no way a professional detailer, I only do my own car. I have lots of products that I purchased including #9, #82 as well as 8006 and 9006 pads.

So should I attack it with the PC or the Rotary next?

If you want a swirl/hologram free finish you either need to hit it with your PC or be incredibly talented and almost lucky with a rotary.

While I can understand your opinion on the PC considering you have not had much luck with it - you also have to realize that with the correct technique and products, 95% of the cars I have detailed have been "polishable" with the PC. Also, with that 95%, I would say 90% didn't require M83 which is the most aggressive product that can be used with the PC.

M80 and the PC, with the CORRECT technique and patience WILL remove 90% of the defects you will see.

On to the before pictures you posted...

That finish is fairly bad. It looks like it has deeper swirls and maybe even some moderate scratches mixed in. It's hard to tell, but it almost looks like somebody wiped that car down with a wet towel when it was fairly dirty. That's what those scuff-marks look like in the third picture down.

In my opinion, most people who let their car get that neglected would only be interested in a "glossy" appearance, rather than a swirl-free finish...as it just doesn't make sense to them to pay me $300-400 to polish those defects out.

It's hard to go by pictures, but looking at those I would probably hit it with M80 and see if that was aggressive enough - if not, it would be another test spot with M83. I also see some water-spotting on there - but those may or may not come out with a good clay job.

Anyway, hope our opinions help - good luck on getting that finish polished out!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

you also have to realize that with the correct technique and products, 95% of the cars I have detailed have been "polishable" with the PC. Also, with that 95%, I would say 90% didn't require M83 which is the most aggressive product that can be used with the PC.

M80 and the PC, with the CORRECT technique and patience WILL remove 90% of the defects you will see.

Good summary.

Just to add...

Re-polish each panel after washing of course with M80 Speed Glaze on the 5.0 setting. Work a small section at a time, about one foot or two foot squared or something that fits your panel,

"Let the panel be your guide"


and then remove the excess and move on to a new section overlapping into the previous section. Then apply two thin coats of wax. As long as you cut out the deepest swirls and scratches from your rotary work, your PC work should clean everything up nicely.

[96Lude]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

I think one of the problems is that I never even used #83 when in fact maybe I should have started with #83 and then moved down to a lighter polish. I will definitely take all your suggestions into consideration and try them out.

Thanks for all the helpful information.

[pcunite]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

I will definitely take all your suggestions into consideration and try them out.

Just curious to know how everything turned out...

.

[kboxer]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

I have a black explorer and polished about 2 months ago. Still is swirl free. I wax it monthly also after washing. Even after washing still looks great in the sun.

[96Lude]

Re: I'm very upset and feel cheated...

UPDATE:

I tried re-polishing one of the doors, and I was not able to remove the scratches. Here is a pic of the defect on this door:



I went as far as #84 Compound Power Cleaner with a W7006 foam cutting pad and it did not make much of a difference.

My question is this:

Is it time to purchase a wool pad and attack that door again?