Swirl 101 / confused what to use when

[rting]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
In an attempt to make this easier... how about we first start by reading this,

Meguiar's 5-Step Paint Care Cycle

Mike

Mike,

I have to say that when l started with no knowlegdge (or lacking a lot), it is by sheer determination, lots of spare time, and this great thing called internet that I managed to educate myself just a little. I could not imagine that given the range of products out there plus your competitors' will point a new consumer in the right direction - or provide enough confidence to move forward.

This could be a thread/opportunity to Meguiar's because if anyone out there can quickly grab new consumer effectively, there could be a huge gain. I stood at the superstore and literally the aisle on both sides are stuff to the roof with products for car care and the aisle is about 40ft long. The last thing we need as a consumer is feeling confused or lack of confidence in trying a product (not the lack of confidence of the product). I hear fiberrich and can relate to his comments quite well.

BTW, I did micro-marring a little of the black Porsche. So, removing the micro-marring is my next step.

[fiberrich]

Thanks Mike!

Ok, so my bad. The competition confuses waxes and polishes, not polishes and glazes.

Also, your FAQ states Meguiar's markets pure polishes and cleaner polishes, which I understood, but maybe my bad if I sounded like the confusion was on Meguiar's end, which it's not.

However, so that I may better understand, what's the difference between products that are labeled "glaze" vs. "polish" or did I miss that in the FAQ?

I thought "glaze" meant a "pure polish", but then when I read about Speed Glaze on the web site, it states that it cleans, polishes and protects? I'm sorry to be so confused. I'm really just trying to understand and get an answer.

Also, for #81, many people state that it is a pure polish; however, there are two things that makes me think otherwise

1. The front of the bottle shows a marker for light cleaning on an abrasion scale.

2. It states on the back of the bottle that it is a cleaner/polish.

I'm more interested in the answer regarding #81 than the Speed Glaze issue.


Again, maybe there is not a definitive line between some of the products and their application.

Thanks!

[fiberrich]

rting,

Thanks for your support. By way of Mike's response, I think Mike is taking my comments the wrong way.

I am a VERY BIG supporter of Meguiar's. I have used their consumer cleaner/wax product for years and I've been talking up NXT to everyone!!

By reading this forum, I have made the decision to go with all their products for my entire car detailing needs. I have found every one of their products to be of high quality.

I'm trying to make the move from their consumer line to their professional line and I have studied and read so much so as not to bother asking questions that I may be able to find on my own.

However, this glaze/polish definition is confusing to me as their products are labeled. I understand they have "pure polishes" and "cleaner/polishes", but I don't understand what differentiates a glaze from a polish.

I just wanted to know if #81 has cleaners that would take off my previous wax protection or is it a pure polish (glaze?) so that I don't apply a product that diminishes the previous work I did.

I'm reading/"hearing" two different things and just wanted clarification.

I'm sorry I asked the question.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by fiberrich
rting,

Thanks for your support. By way of Mike's response, I think Mike is taking my comments the wrong way.

I think I'm taking them the right way, at least I hope I am. My post with a link to the 5-Step Paint Care Cycle was merely to help explain the 5 basic procedures for taking care of your car's finish and the role that polishing play, whether it's a cleaner/polish or a pure polish.

I am a VERY BIG supporter of Meguiar's. I have used their consumer cleaner/wax product for years and I've been talking up NXT to everyone!!

By reading this forum, I have made the decision to go with all their products for my entire car detailing needs. I have found every one of their products to be of high quality.

I'm trying to make the move from their consumer line to their professional line and I have studied and read so much so as not to bother asking questions that I may be able to find on my own.

However, this glaze/polish definition is confusing to me as their products are labeled. I understand they have "pure polishes" and "cleaner/polishes", but I don't understand what differentiates a glaze from a polish.

I think it's safe to say that when working inside the Meguiar’s brand of products that the word glaze and polish are interchangeable when the polish you're referring to is a pure polish and not a cleaner/polish.

I just wanted to know if #81 has cleaners that would take off my previous wax protection or is it a pure polish (glaze?) so that I don't apply a product that diminishes the previous work I did.

I'm reading/"hearing" two different things and just wanted clarification.

I'm sorry I asked the question.

Please don't be sorry for asking the question, and I'll do my best to try to help answer your question about the #81 Hand Polish. M-81 Hand Polish contains no ingredients with the intended purpose of cleaning or abrading the surface. It's sole function is to create brilliant high gloss with clear, deep reflections. It is a pure polish that will add beauty to any type of paint by adding Meguiar’s rich polishing oils to the finish.

That said, just the act of rubbing some type of liquid over a waxed surface tends to have a cleaning and polishing effect which is either accentuated, or diminished depending upon your application material, and your application procedure.

If you were to apply the #81 Hand Polish with a soft gentle motion, using light pressure on a soft clean foam applicator pad and it will probably not remove all of any previous coating of another product but will in fact tend to build upon the results of any previous work.

Now if you were to apply the #81 Hand Polish with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer with heavy pressure and it will probably remove all of the paint. It's not the #81 abrading and removing the paint, it is the cutting action of the wool fibers, the direct rotating action of the rotary buffer and the pressure your hands apply downward on the buffer. The point is that your choice of application material and method of application can greatly affect how aggressive, or non-aggressive any product is.


M-81 Hand Polish is a pure polish for creating beauty and contains no ingredients with the intended purpose of cleaning or abrading the finish.





Hope this helps...

Mike

[fiberrich]

Mike,

Thanks for your reply. The information you provided this time helped me to better understand the product/application as it is now starting to "sink in".

2hotford, I appreciate your response as well and hopefully you understood my confusion as my thinking was a "pure polish" was only oils and products like, #5 and #7 are called "Glazes" on the bottles, whereas #81 is called a polish. In addition, with the bottle showing "light cleaning" with an abrasion scale and stating "cleaner/polishing" on the back label, I didn't know which was correct. Now I understand the "cleaning" ability comes from just the act of rubbing the product on the surface and some more from the application material and pressure applied.

Mike helped me in another post with selecting a "cleaner" for a new car. I also asked for which products I could apply by hand, as well as machine, as I hope to get a PC this week for father’s day!

So, my routine moving to the professional line (except for NXT) will be as follows:

NXT wash
Clay
Swirl Remover 2.0 (#9)
Hand Polish (#81)
NXT Tech Wax (used as my polymer in place of the #20 in the pro line)
Pro Wax #16 and/or #26 as a topper (just for when I have the time and want to have some fun experimenting with "the look", otherwise, NXT will be my LSP)

I think this approach seems pretty sound.

[hirosh]

fiberrich,

your procedure looks good. just a suggestion about using a topper (i think i've read mike suggest this before) try using #16 or #26 over nxt on one section of your hood, roof, or trunk. basically a surface where you can compare the two side by side, and see which one you prefer. i did something similar with my mach1, although it was half the car with nxt and half with #26 (liquid version). unfortunately i can't tell the difference between the two!

mike,

considering how confusing it is for people new to "detailing" and keeping their cars looking nice, how about if meguiar's puts out some sort of "guideline". at one of the stores i went to get meguiar products, they had a meguiar's guideline (though it looked kinda old) that basically told what product would be good use for each step, and also took into consideration if a person had a lot of time or not. just a thought. it might not be possible today with the huge line of meguiars products, but i think that be a good way for meguiar's to gain new customers.

reid

[fiberrich]

hirosh,

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the procedure. I have purchased both #16 and #26 and will try your suggestion. I've even read people compare whether they like 16 on top of 26 or 26 on top of 16. More work, but again at that point, it's all about experimenting and having fun!

I have a local pro paint supply store that carries a large selection of Meguiar's Pro products and a more regional auto store that carries a lot of the consumer and some pro stuff. I'm lucky I guess as I see others have a harder time finding what they need.

When in the pro supply store the other day, I saw they had a Meguiar's counter display pad (looked something like a placemat) that had something very similar to what you are talking about. It showed various pro products and which products to use when for various finish types. It helped to review that as they were ringing up some Meguiar products for me!

I've read Mike was working on something like this, but as you state, it's probably a daunting task trying to include all products and all potential condition/applications of the product.

[rting]

May have some success here ... with both of my dark color cars.

Here is what I did with #7 glaze:

1. Power wash - with the nozzle away to have low pressure but closer where there is built up dust/dirt.
2. Hand wash with a mitten + soap. Dry with California Blade
3. Power apply and hand buff of Turtle Wax's Scratch and Swirl Remover.
4. Hand apply and hand buff of Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze.
5. Power apply and power buff of Turtle Wax's Super Hard Shell Liquid Wax.

Have also used Meg's Scratch X and Body Scrub as needed. The results are very acceptable considering this is my first time. The following are relate to, I thought, general use of the glaze, liquid wax, and application/buffing technique.

Issues:
1. The #7 seems to be hard to get an even application as after buffing, I still notice lighter and darker color from my hand application "strokes." I could not tell when the application will or will not create these shades of lighter/darker color as a result of my stroke because the liquid drys to a haze and such haze prevents a good accessment - until I buff it off.
2. During waxing, I also notice that I cannot move along the power buffer/applicator too fast as it would also create these lighter/darker shades. I seem to need multiple passes during application of wax if I go too fast. Power buffing does not solve the issues.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by rting

Here is what I did with #7 glaze:

3. Power apply and hand buff of Turtle Wax's Scratch and Swirl Remover.
4. Hand apply and hand buff of Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze.
5. Power apply and power buff of Turtle Wax's Super Hard Shell Liquid Wax.

Issues:
1. The #7 seems to be hard to get an even application as after buffing, I still notice lighter and darker color from my hand application "strokes." I could not tell when the application will or will not create these shades of lighter/darker color as a result of my stroke because the liquid dries to a haze and such haze prevents a good assessment - until I buff it off.

2. During waxing, I also notice that I cannot move along the power buffer/applicator too fast as it would also create these lighter/darker shades. I seem to need multiple passes during application of wax if I go too fast. Power buffing does not solve the issues.

Hi rting,

One thing I have to give your, for being new at this you sure attack it with a zeal!

All my life I have been a real system-oriented person, that's one of the reasons I really like working with Meguiar's products and for the Meguiar’s company. With Meguiar’s you can easily stay inside a complete system of products.

This insures chemical compatibility because there is a synergistic compatibility between products, each product and process building on the results of the previous product and process because the same chemist created all of the formula's.

When you start mixing and matching products from other manufactures, you lose this control. Note: I didn't say you cannot achieve stellar results, because you can, but you lose some degree of control, a type of control I prefer to be in charge over.

Because you are working on clear coat finishes, you are discovering what many other people have found and that is the #7 Show Car Glaze can become difficult to work with and create uniform results with. This product was originally formulated for single stage finish. This is also why I an others recommended the Deep Crystal Polish, or the #81 Hand Polish. Both of these are easier to apply and remove by hand on clear coats and while making it easier for you the user to produce excellent results.

I won't comment on the Turtle wax products. I have used both and I'll just leave it at that. That said, if you're willing to try this again, try one of these two procedures:

1) Pick up a bottle of either Meguiar's Cleaner Wax or Meguiar's Gold Class Liquid Wax. Use either one over what you have already applied to your car's finish. By hand or machine.

Apply a thin coat of either one, allow to dry 10 to 15 minutes and then remove with a soft microfiber polishing cloth or soft, 100% cotton towel. Both of these products should remove any streaking problems and leave behind a clear, dark reflective surface in one step. The Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax is an unsung hero on the Internet, at $5.00 suggest retail price in the U.S., this product will about perform most products on the market for cleaning, polishing and protecting in one step. It richens the color and clarity of any paint and is easy to apply and wipe off. Just be careful to not get any on pebble textured black plastic trim.

2 Pick up a bottle of Deep Crystal Polish and Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax. Either of these two products should be easy to find and cost-effective. Suggested retail price in the U.S. is approximately $5.00 a bottle.

By hand or machine, apply a coating of each of these products. You don't have to let the polish dry before removing, just apply and remove. Then apply the Deep Crystal Carnauba Was. Allow ti to dry to a haze, about 10-15 minutes and remove with a soft, clean microfiber polishing cloth or a soft clean, 100% cotton terry cloth towel.

These two products should also remove any inconsistencies in your finish and leave your finish with a deep, rich, high gloss reflective finish.

If you want to, anywhere along the line, substitute NXT Tech Wax.

Here's a shot of my wife's Honda Pilot after applying one coat of Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax after washing.




Very impressive for a $5.00 dollar bottle of wax! Plus it smells wonderful, kind of like bananas.

Mike

[rting]

Mike,

Thanks for the heads up! I am travelling to California today and rest assured that I will get some in the US at a proper US suggested retail price.

Will try Meguiar's Cleaner Wax, Meguiar's Gold Class Liquid Wax (this wax is C$18 at Wal-Mart in Canada!), Deep Crystal Polish, and Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax. May even go for the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner and will look for the NXT series too as we do not get them (we get just a limited collection in Canadian Tire) in Canada!

Thanks and will report back after a week or two.