Paint Cleaner Agressiveness

[Accident]

I have seen a lot of people saying to use the least agressive product possible. I was just wondering which paint cleaners were more or less agressive than the others. Also, how much paint cleaning is too much. I know that question also comes up a lot, but it takes anywhere between 5-10 applications of DC # 1 to get the results that I want from my paint. Is this too much or will I be ok with this. DC paint cleaner is fairly non-agressive right? Can I move to a product that is more agressive? (I still haven't done my whole car because I am doing it by hand and 10 applications takes a while.) Also, my car has a single stage paint that was neglected for fourteen years. I appreciate the help.

[Mike Phillips]

Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner is a chemical cleaner only, it doesn't contain any diminishing abrasives so it's note very effective at removing defects.

You want to move on to ScratchX by hand or a cleaner/polish in our professional Line if you want to work by hand.

Just to note, I'm in Dallas, Texas right now typing this from my hotel room, so I'm not going to be around to answer more questions on this subject until Monday.

Read this... and soak in the information in the cleaning section as well as the polish section...

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2409

[Accident]

I've tried Scratch-x, but it still takes a good 4-5 applications to get good results. Maybe I'm still doing it wrong? Also, what should I try from the professional line? I liked the Scratch-X for my girlfriends car, and the DC # 1 to get rid of the light oxidation on my friend's truck, but neither seemed to work right on my car. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I appreciat it.

[sneek]

you have to work ScratchX in really well!! are you working by hand or by machine?

By hand it will take along time to remove scratches with ScratchX because you do have to work the product really well before you get results

If your working with a PC you can use scratchX on a W8006 or you can try #80 fisrt if it doesnt remove the defect then move up to #83 then follow that with #80 or #82 all on a W8006

Also have you tried claying and colourX ?
1986 Ford Bronco II - Extreme Makeover
How to remove a defect by hand with ScratchX
also if you choose to use ColourX or any wax for that matter (you should use a wax after you use the polishes unless the cars paint is fresh) this may help How to tell when a Meguiar's wax is ready to remove - The Swipe Test
hope this helps

[Accident]

I'm trying to brighten the color, not remove scratches. My car is so oxidized right now there is no reflection and you can't see the scratches in it. Thanks though, and yes, I am working by hand. Claying made it smooth, and I was thinking about trying Color-x next, does it help much? I don't hear about too many people using it.

[Pete-FWA]

Originally posted by Accident
I've tried Scratch-x, but it still takes a good 4-5 applications to get good results. Maybe I'm still doing it wrong?

Accident, when you work the ScratchX, what color is the applicator when you're finished? Does it match the color of your paint?

ScratchX will often take repeated work by hand. 4-5 applications could be what it's going to take to get the job done to your standards. If you have a single stage paint with some thick oxidation, that will be a major task to clean by hand with ScratchX.

Originally posted by Accident
I liked the Scratch-X for my girlfriends car, and the DC # 1 to get rid of the light oxidation on my friend's truck, but neither seemed to work right on my car.

Each paint finish is different after the use, aging, and contamination that it sees. So, when we know if you have single stage or not, we can make some recommendations on what product you might try next.

[Accident]

It comes off really dark blue, my car is light, but thats how I figured out it was single-stage, my girlfriend's car has a clear coat, so does my friends that I used the DC #1 on. I know it will be a big task by hand, that is why I am wondering if there is anything that will get it done a little quicker, maybe 2-3 applications? The oxidation isn't nearly as bad as before, only one spot that I've pretty much left alone (it isn't very noticable unless you're looking for it) that I left to see the difference in my paint. Also my other problem is that I have two test spots on my car, and they shine A LOT more than the rest of the car, regarless of how much I try to mimic what I did in the two spots. Sometimes I begin to not care, then I see the great looking cars on this site and get motivated again.

[Pete-FWA]

Single stage paint...

Several of the paint cleaner products in the Professional Line can be used by hand. You certainly have a flavor for what kind of task this is since you've worked entire vehicles by hand before.

M09 Swirl Remover is very light...probably too light to get done what you want on the finish you describe.

M82 Swirl Free Polish...again, most likely too light

M80 Speed Glaze Could be a good one to use.

The newest M02 Fine Cut Cleaner formula is OK'd for use by hand, DA, or rotary. It's slightly more aggressive than M80.


When working by hand, the idea is to get something aggressive enough to get the job done without multiple attempts at each area. Using a product that's too rough can mar the finish and require you to spend many more hours of labor going over the entire vehicle with yet another product to remove marring.

Ideally...using a DA machine such as the G100 will help you do this job so much faster, requiring so much less effort, and with more uniform results than by hand.

With the level of oxidation you describe, this might be the only way to get it back to where you're satsified.

Now it's time to decide if you want to try one of the products by hand to see if you like the results. I'm sure you can find the combination that makes you happy, even by doing only hand work.

[Accident]

Thanks for the help. Since I am only familiar with the consumer line, are #9 and #82 more or less agressive than scratch-x. I think I will try to find #80, a store about 5 minutes away has a lot of the professional line, but I don't remember seeing the speed glaze. If not, I will find somewhere else . Thanks again, I'll post some pictures of my car if it works.

[OctaneGuy]

#80 is a machine applied product--it won't break down when applied by hand.

Have you tried using ColorX with a rough terry towel? Mike Phillips has an article on this--about cutting a large towel into small squares and using that to remove the oxidation.

Personally, after having buffed out several SS finishes with a rotary and knowing the effort required to remove the product--I couldn't imagine trying to do it all by hand.

Good luck!

Richard

Originally posted by Accident
Thanks for the help. Since I am only familiar with the consumer line, are #9 and #82 more or less agressive than scratch-x. I think I will try to find #80, a store about 5 minutes away has a lot of the professional line, but I don't remember seeing the speed glaze. If not, I will find somewhere else . Thanks again, I'll post some pictures of my car if it works.

[Pete-FWA]

Originally posted by OctaneGuy
#80 is a machine applied product--it won't break down when applied by hand.

Have you tried using it by hand? Not that I REGULARLY use it this way, but in isolated cases it's worked fine for me. Unless I have an old bottle and the formula has changed, the directions do give specifics for hand use.

Let me know, will you?

Thanks

[OctaneGuy]

I just went to take a look. You're absolutely correct. I was confusing the directions for M83 for M80. M83 says machine applied, M80 says machine applied or by hand.

I did try it by hand last week on the Red Mustang, but it was primarily for removing things, not in place of scratchX.

Richard

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
Have you tried using it by hand? Not that I REGULARLY use it this way, but in isolated cases it's worked fine for me. Unless I have an old bottle and the formula has changed, the directions do give specifics for hand use.

Let me know, will you?

Thanks

[Pete-FWA]

Now that I've helped hijack this thread....

Thought maybe you had a bad time trying M80 by hand.

Personally, if I'm working a single stage spot by hand, I use M02 with a terry applicator.

I've never used ColorX, though I have extensive experience with M66. Using it with a rough terry applicator works just as you mention it does for ColorX.

When you mentioned using M80 for "removing things" on that faded red Mustang, do you mean oxidation or bonded contaminates?

[OctaneGuy]

I've only used M66 a few times now--haven't used it on a full car yet. ColorX is a chemical paint cleaner like DC1. Are there diminishing abrasives in M66?

I intentionally didn't clarify my use of M80 by hand simply because we were using it in non traditional ways. Besides using it to soften up hard to remove residue after buffing, my customer started using it on different parts of the car for general cleanup including inside his windshield. Not something I'd recommend--Goo Gone or something related would be better...

I've been using ScratchX for those areas that are not friendly to buffers on SS paint.

Interesting about M02 (Fine Cut Cleaner). I'm going to have to experiment with that as well as using M80 by hand!

Thanks!

Richard

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
Now that I've helped hijack this thread....

Thought maybe you had a bad time trying M80 by hand.

Personally, if I'm working a single stage spot by hand, I use M02 with a terry applicator.

I've never used ColorX, though I have extensive experience with M66. Using it with a rough terry applicator works just as you mention it does for ColorX.

When you mentioned using M80 for "removing things" on that faded red Mustang, do you mean oxidation or bonded contaminates?

[Pete-FWA]

M66 Quick Detailer does have diminishing abrasives. I use it anywhere a cleaner/wax product fits.

For the production side of our business, we had fleets of wholesale cars that only paid for a quick shine. M66 was ideal for this since we could use it with a rotary and a foam or wool pad. With a wool pad it would make its way through some fairly thick oxidation on single stage.

Sometimes, especially on white or light beige and with an inexperienced user, I would put a terry bonnet on the 11" Gem orbital and let them coat the paint with M66. This was virtually painless training in the polish and wax area. No matter what, the paint would have some wax on it when they finished...that's what these jobs paid us to do.

As for M02, I used this by the gallon until around the mid-90s. We ran that with the W1000 foam pad on a rotary for nearly every vehicle through the "detail" side. It was a natural to use this by hand since I was so familiar with it.